Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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To my knowledge none of the SHORAD options that are practically available to Ukraine have the range to counter the KA-52's if they are operating at the top end of their firing range. The "stated" launch ranges of the KA-52 puts it at about twice the range of the supplied MANPADS and SHORAD platforms. To my knowledge most of the kit that Ukraine has is 4.5-7km max range. With the KA-52 supposedly able to lauch as far away as 10-12km.
To counter this Ukraine would likely have to pull expensive and vulnerable medium range GBAD systems (IRIS-T etc) forward and put them at massive risk. However, I dont think they have the numbers of these types of systems to cover a sufficient frontage of the battlefield.

Indeed I heard they need more to get more and closer to the front lines to be able to support a front line that long

10 days or so ago thats precisely where one of their radar systems got hit. Above (on map) front line in South.

From the lack of Russian "kills" pictures I suspect the Russians are keeping Ukraine supressed rather than causing high damage. (the one leo/bradley field excluded)
 
The article does state "temporary advantage" for the helicopters though so we shall see.

Ukraine seems to be making ground everyday currently.

Someone here was mentioning stinger manpads

Problem is Russian helicopters stay behind the front and fire missiles; the anti tank missiles they are using have a 12km range so they can hang quite far back and manpads like the stinger can't match that range

To remove the Russian helicopters from the battlefield in the south and east where it's wide open fields: you would have to destroy their airfields, or somehow bait them into coming closer so you can get a lock on with manpads or lastly and one of the better options - shoot them down with your AIM 9 Sidewinder missiles with your F16
 
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Russians learnt from Apache and hellfire stand off to at least 11km for effectiveness. Brimstone pushes that to 40km from rotorwing.


Interestingly though - was this ever made?


edit:

can answer my own question M-SHORAD Stryker is now being rolled out ; Avenger also has a gun option for a .50cal in replace of 1 of the quad stinger packs
 
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That's why they need the F16, so they can fire aim9 and aim120's at those helicopters from 50km+ away and take the ka-52 out of the battlefield for good just like the Bayraktar has been taken out
 
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Wonder if they can pair some of the older Soviet AA systems, assuming they have much left, with the Gepard's radar for increased mobility without having to tow/setup the bulkier older radar systems.

As an aside the anti-tank missiles these helis use they need to come within range of Stingers paired with the Gepard and IIRC the Gepard is capable of targetting the missiles.

EDIT: One problem they may have is these helis can map ground targets at 20+km and close to effective firing range then probably out-run reactive return fire from shorter range systems. Ranges of 11+km with the anti-tank missiles Russia is using realistically is lobbed from jets - from helis 7-8km is more realistic, 8-10 situationally with an experienced pilot.
 
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I'm not so sure the Russian regime would survive having all gains reversed and losing more than they started with.
The problem there also is that if Ukraine did attempt to mount an invasion of Crimea then western intelligence has reportedly concluded that would almost certainly be a red line for Putin in regards to responding with tactical nukes. And so it's highly unlikely the west would provide any support for such an action.
 
Putin allready won the next election by 99%
I know this is a joke, but the crazy thing is that due to the amount of anti-Putin Russians who have fled the country (and the fact that the main opposition party is the Communists and they're spouting even worse rhetoric regarding Ukraine) there's actually very high odds that despite the **** storm he's brought down on his country he's actually going to get a higher % of the vote in 2024 than he did in 2018 lmao (which would be a new personal best for him as he was riding high on a wave of "NATO is out to get us!" in 2018 so performed above average, even breaking the previous record set by Medvedev).
 
The problem there also is that if Ukraine did attempt to mount an invasion of Crimea then western intelligence has reportedly concluded that would almost certainly be a red line for Putin in regards to responding with tactical nukes. And so it's highly unlikely the west would provide any support for such an action.
With Finland and the Baltics in NATO the addition of Ukraine basically cuts off Russia from quenching their far-right elements with military action so I think inevitably Russia will implode even if they go after Georgia it will never be enough in comparison to what they want so Crimea may not be permanently off the table even if they agree to end hostilities at that point.

However with the water supply essentially cut off and Russia having to restart it's irritating supply system which will take materials away from the war effort thus providing Ukraine many more opportunities to make life miserable for Russian soldiers defending Crimea without risking a costly offensive.
 
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The problem there also is that if Ukraine did attempt to mount an invasion of Crimea then western intelligence has reportedly concluded that would almost certainly be a red line for Putin in regards to responding with tactical nukes. And so it's highly unlikely the west would provide any support for such an action.
Putin has had 45 red lines so far
 
Heading off to Assen for the MotoGP next weekend and my NAFO stickers turned up in time. Only a few £ but I'm sure every penny matters helping fund equipment for the soldiers.


IMG-4964.jpg
 
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I like the way they are showing off their latest T-14, T-90, T-80 tank...

The stuff they are readying now is the `not bad but not good` quality - T80BV going to BVM with T90 gun sights. T64/T62 were brought out for the last invasion of Chechnya, so reusing them now is doable.
 
T64/T62 were brought out for the last invasion of Chechnya, so reusing them now is doable.
You mean T-62M, the T-64 is a completely different tank. The T-62 was an evolution of the T-55 (which evolved into the T-72) whereas the T-64 was/is a (vastly superior) Ukrainian tank that Russia had to retire in the 90s because they couldn't get the parts from Ukraine in the quantities needed and couldn't manufacture them themselves.

We all know the 80s were the best ;)
I know this is a joke but it's not entirely inaccurate, the T-90 was essentially designed as a less capable but much cheaper replacement for the T-80 and T-64.

Basically in the 80s the USSR decided that building and updating three different tanks (T-64, T-72, T-80) was unsustainable for their failing economy. So they decided to focus development on the T-72 (the less capable but cheapest to build/maintain of the three) and create an upgraded version that would add in the best bits from the T-64 and T-80, this would be called the T-72BU. Then in the 90's the Russians decided that export customers might not want to pay top dollar for an upgraded version of the USSR's third best tank so they renamed it the T-90 (to be clear this is not a joke).

The whole Soviet tank naming schemes are something of a mess but if anyone wants a quick reference to what Soviet tanks are operating in this war and how they compare I wrote this a few months back as a guide:

T-62M - This out of production Russian tank is currently in service with Russia (a small number have been captured by Ukraine), they were all retired but they are being reactivated out of desperation to fill the gaps in their ranks, notable for being the last Soviet tank without an autoloader (so it needs an additional crew member to make it work). These tanks were only retired in 2009 hence why they were so easy for them to reactivate as they hadn't been standing as long as the rest. Interesting note, the T-62M is, as the name would suggest a modernised T-62, which itself was an improved version of the T-55, which was in turn an improved version of the T-54, which means the T-62M tanks currently fighting on a 2023 battlefield are technically heavily modernised versions of a tank designed in WW2.

T-64 (multiple variants) - This out of production Ukrainian tank is currently in service with Ukraine (a small number have been captured by Russia) and is the backbone of their tanks forces, this was the USSRs best tank (the bugs with the T-80 were never ironed out prior to the USSRs collapse), and while they stopped producing them new 35 years ago Ukraine have been continuously modernising their existing tanks. Able to defeat any Russian tanks in an even numbers fight and even pull off miracles when outnumbered. Sadly as the tanks are out of production there is no way to replace extensively damaged ones, and as the T-64 was never officially exported there aren't any sources of replacements.

T-72 (multiple variants) - This still produced Russian tank is currently in service with Russia (a small number have been captured by Ukraine), the main battle tank of Russia, the T-72 was originally designed as a less capable but cheaper and easier to produce alternative to the T-64 which could be produced in case of war, due to bureaucracy (and the desire to sell it to T-55/62 export customers) however it went into production. Still produced to this day and available in many many variants all with differing qualities of armour/sights/etc the T-72 is the least capable tank involved in this war in any large numbers (at least until they get more T-62M out there).

T-80 (multiple variants) - This Russian and Ukrainian tank is still produced in Ukraine but out of production in Russia, used by both sides the Russian versions had gas turbine main engines (the first production MBT to do so) and the Ukrainian versions have diesel engines. The T-80 is essentially an improved T-64 but with aspects of the T-72 added, either in order to reduce complexity and improve reliability, or to reduce cost and manufacturing time, the argument has never been settled. These are decent tanks but the gas turbine versions are heavier on fuel than diesel tanks and thus harder to keep supplied, Ukraine's marines love their captured ones however.

T-84 - This still produced Ukrainian tank is currently in service with Ukraine albeit in small numbers, it is designed as the next evolution of Ukraine's diesel T-80 variant and allegedly fixes all of the tanks issues while adding modern technology. Essentially they took the T-80 design, threw away the T-72 derived bits Russia contributed and replaced them with better bits (which answers how they felt about the above argument). Sadly these don't exist in large enough numbers to influence the war.

T-90 - This still produced Russian tank is currently in service with Russia (a number have been captured by Ukraine, they have more T-90 now than their own T-84 lol). The T-90 is something of a fraud, it started out in the mid 1980s when the USSR decided it couldn't afford to develop three tanks (T-64, T-72, T-80) anymore so had to pick just one, in fact it could barely afford to develop one tank so T-72 it is, they then focused on the improved tank known as the T-72BU until the USSR collapsed and then in 1992 Russia realised that the T-72 was now thirty years old and export customers weren't going to buy a brand new thirty year old tank so they renamed the T-72BU to the T-90 (as I've included some comical phrasing in this post to try and avoid it getting dull I feel the need to point out here that this is not a joke, this is actually what happened). There are essentially three variants of the T-90 used by Russia, the original T-90 from the 90s (essentially an upgraded T-72 modernised in the 90s), the T-90A from the 00s which is actually the export T-90S model renamed so Russia didn't have to admit they were buying their own watered down export model because they couldn't afford their domestic model (essentially an upgraded export spec T-72 modernised in the 00s), and finally the T-90M introduced in 2017 this ones actually not a bad tank and was designed at a time when Russia finally had money for tanks.

T-14 Armata - This still produced Russian tank is allegedly in service with Russia, they're confirmed to have at least two, reports are they're thinking about sending them to Ukraine (so presumably they do have more than two, maybe).

M-55 - This out of production Soviet-Israeli tank (it's a T-55 with a 21st century upgrade suite by Israel) is currently in service with Ukraine, 28 were donated by Slovenia, it's not really a number worth mentioning but hey they outnumber the T-14 and the T-84 so I kinda had to. Interesting note, they fire NATO rounds.

PT-91 (multiple variants) - This still produced Soviet-Polish tank (it's a T-72 with a late 90s/early 00s upgrade suite by Poland) is currently in service with Ukraine, There's not much to say about this tank as prior to being sent ot Ukraine they had never seen combat. However, it's a Soviet tank that's been upgraded/modernised by Poland, and considering pretty much everything Russia has in the field is a Soviet tank upgraded/modernised by Russia, it should be very competitive :p
 
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