Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

[Andrew_McP]

Isn't there some sort of shoulder mounted aa weapon that could be used to tackle the choppers?

It's a range problem. Those helicopters (arguably equivalent to the Apache) are very capable. I'm a bit depressed this hadn't been anticipated. Russia's incompetent but they have some very capable kit... when they find someone capable of deploying it sensibly!

 

[Quartz]

Time to bring out the Stinger missiles that were so effective in Afghanistan.

 

[alchal]

Isn't there some sort of shoulder mounted aa weapon that could be used to tackle the choppers?

Problem is they outrange the manpads and the systems like storm streak are far too few.

Works when on the defensive, not so much where their chopters can stay in safe spaces at tree top height.

According to reports they have moved lots more attack chopters to a base about 100km from the front line.

That has got to be a priority attack for drones etc.

 

[Stu999]

New MoD report is not good reading, saying basically that russian attack helicopters are causing havoc and Ukraine has no answer at the minute.

I thought we'd sent them Starstreak missiles?

That mine clearing footage was awesome, especially the shockwave.

 

[azazl187]

Problem is they outrange the manpads and the systems like storm streak are far too few.

Works when on the defensive, not so much where their chopters can stay in safe spaces at tree top height.

According to reports they have moved lots more attack chopters to a base about 100km from the front line.

That has got to be a priority attack for drones etc.

It's clear that modern warfare relies heavily on air superiority. If NATO doesn't just step in and end this soon I fear Russia will just hold ground and then take more.

 

[Uther]

Now the Ukrainians have to face the same slaughter the Russians did when attacking, only with less amusement here. Without air superiority it will always be carnage

 

[Hawk Tuah]

And even if they do accomplish pushing them back out of Ukraine, Russia is still not going to stop attacking them.

It's hard to see what a good end result is for all this.

 

[Harlequin]

Same problem with stinger (as said above) - max range is 4km, whereas the incoming has a range of 11km+ Even Martlet has a max range of 8km (similar to the older rapier)

 

[Grim5]

Putin may be happy to spend 30% of his country's GDP on fighting Ukraine indefinitely, but is NATO happy spending 1% of its GDP to support Ukraine indefinitely

And the Russian people go along with it, no matter how much they may like or dislike Putin, the Russian people have a culture of trying to act macho and to Russians being a macho man means suffering, the more you suffer the more manly you are - so Russian people are likely to suffer when 30% of all GDP is spent on war but they may not care to do anything about it because they embrace suffering, Russians are taught to love suffering

 

[NickK]

Putin may be happy to spend 30% of his country's GDP on fighting Ukraine indefinitely, but is NATO happy spending 1% of its GDP to support Ukraine indefinitely

And the Russian people go along with it, no matter how much they may like or dislike Putin, the Russian people have a culture of trying to act macho and to Russians being a macho man means suffering, the more you suffer the more manly you are - so Russian people are likely to suffer when 30% of all GDP is spent on war but they may not care to do anything about it because they embrace suffering, Russians are taught to love suffering

Turn that on its head - 1% means a 30% drain on Russia's finances. Seems a pretty good return. It will also have a knockoff effect to China and Russia's allies.

The question is will the BRACS start providing financial arms support? Then that 30% figure will drop.

 

[NickK]

Same problem with stinger (as said above) - max range is 4km, whereas the incoming has a range of 11km+ Even Martlet has a max range of 8km (similar to the older rapier)

Pity railgun are such an easy target at the moment. Although a railgun round would simply take out the chopper and continue going.

It's the sort of job for lasers.. but given they're probably on the edge of the Geneva agreements, bulky and direct line of sight.. they're probably at a disadvantage. Best probably taking out the airfields they're using and the fuel logistics.

 

[bingham67]

The article does state "temporary advantage" for the helicopters though so we shall see.

Ukraine seems to be making ground everyday currently.

 

[Harlequin]

I suggested about re equipping some of the Bradleys with the Linebacker kit, but stinger does have a limitation (one that starstreak can counter) of low flying and hovering attack helicopters. USA has sent Avenger and UK sent Stormer HVM

 

[HungryHippos]

And even if they do accomplish pushing them back out of Ukraine, Russia is still not going to stop attacking them.

It's hard to see what a good end result is for all this.

I'm not so sure the Russian regime would survive having all gains reversed and losing more than they started with.

 

[I_M_Weasel]

I'm not so sure the Russian regime would survive having all gains reversed and losing more than they started with.

And even if they do accomplish pushing them back out of Ukraine, Russia is still not going to stop attacking them.

It's hard to see what a good end result is for all this.

I think you might end up in more of a frozen conflict if you could get back to this position - and then Ukraine could work towards more long range weapons of its own to hurt Russsia back should it keep on with the missile strikes.

 

[steve45]

I suggested about re equipping some of the Bradleys with the Linebacker kit, but stinger does have a limitation (one that starstreak can counter) of low flying and hovering attack helicopters. USA has sent Avenger and UK sent Stormer HVM

To my knowledge none of the SHORAD options that are practically available to Ukraine have the range to counter the KA-52's if they are operating at the top end of their firing range. The "stated" launch ranges of the KA-52 puts it at about twice the range of the supplied MANPADS and SHORAD platforms. To my knowledge most of the kit that Ukraine has is 4.5-7km max range. With the KA-52 supposedly able to lauch as far away as 10-12km.
To counter this Ukraine would likely have to pull expensive and vulnerable medium range GBAD systems (IRIS-T etc) forward and put them at massive risk. However, I dont think they have the numbers of these types of systems to cover a sufficient frontage of the battlefield.

 

[Freakbro]

Putin may be happy to spend 30% of his country's GDP on fighting Ukraine indefinitely, but is NATO happy spending 1% of its GDP to support Ukraine indefinitely

I'm not sure we can afford not to

 

[potatolord]

Turn that on its head - 1% means a 30% drain on Russia's finances. Seems a pretty good return. It will also have a knockoff effect to China and Russia's allies.

The question is will the BRACS start providing financial arms support? Then that 30% figure will drop.

It depends whether the voting public want reduced public spending in order to increase fiscal pressures within Russia.

Arguing about the value of increased budgetary pressures within Russian is a hard sell for the public, as elections take place against a backdrop of increasing uncertainty about both private and government spending.

Russia is playing a long-game here, which is to hope public interest, particularly within Europe, will change as time passes and costs continue.

 

[Hook]

I'm not so sure the Russian regime would survive having all gains reversed and losing more than they started with.

Putin allready won the next election by 99%

 

[Harlequin]

To my knowledge none of the SHORAD options that are practically available to Ukraine have the range to counter the KA-52's if they are operating at the top end of their firing range. The "stated" launch ranges of the KA-52 puts it at about twice the range of the supplied MANPADS and SHORAD platforms. To my knowledge most of the kit that Ukraine has is 4.5-7km max range. With the KA-52 supposedly able to lauch as far away as 10-12km.
To counter this Ukraine would likely have to pull expensive and vulnerable medium range GBAD systems (IRIS-T etc) forward and put them at massive risk. However, I dont think they have the numbers of these types of systems to cover a sufficient frontage of the battlefield.

Stick Land Ceptor on something mobile - the USA kit is all under 8km as well, only the russians invested into medium range but mobile solutions (BUK)

However this is interesting:

Ukraine to integrate Sea Sparrow missile into Soviet-era Buk launchers

The U.S. officials announced on Friday an additional $3.075 billion in aid to Ukraine, which includes an undisclosed number of radar-guided RIM-7 Sea Sparrow surface-to-air missiles. The package for the first time includes Sea Sparrow missiles, which can be integrated into Soviet-era Buk...

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