Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Your argument here is that a supporter of Ukraine is equivalent to them attacking Russia. By your own argument Roar, we should let Ukraine attack China, Iran and North Korea since they supply Russia with Weapons.

Wagner is a Russian based PMC. They still do Russian's bidding. It is NOT equivalent to your made up fantasy world.

Edit: some of you need to understand why we fought world wars. Let you be reminded that if we didn't, you probably wouldn't be speaking English today.
 
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Roar87 said:
I might say I'm not in a relationship with your sister, but if we're holding hands, going out for romantic meals together, and both have no interest in seeing anyone else, then we're de facto a couple. This is what is Ukraine and NATO are.
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Problem there is - Ukraine only gravitated, despite what some want to believe, towards NATO in reaction to Russia actions - even under pro-Western leaders support for joining NATO was relatively low and they had legislation that limited involvement with foreign security pacts to cooperation not integration. Ukraine ultimately wanted to stand on its own 2 feet.
 
Rroff said:
Your post has about as much meaning as it would if you'd just randomly pressed keys on the keyboard and submitted it - it needs to end, as soon as possible, in a way which as much as possible is good for everyone. We need to make sure, amongst other things, this doesn't set a precedent which causes more misery in the future on a much larger scale or allows Russia to simply pause, rebuild, and start all over again.
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We have no say in any of that.
 
Roar87 said:
I think it would be smart for Wagner not to attack Poland, which I'm sure they won't, if they did Poland could definitely trigger article 5 and would be well within their rights to do so - more likely they'd just kill every member of Wagner on their territory without much fuss. We wouldn't treat it as an attack by Russia though, even if we say we would, what would that even mean? We'd go to war with Russia, invade Moscow? Whitehouse is talking *****.
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If Wagner did attack Poland, Poland could just steam into Belarus and free everyone from Putins control. I’m pretty sure the Belarusian people are hoping for it, they hate what is happening to them.
 
Lord-Jaffa said:
We have no say in any of that.
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Quite the contrary, though we don't seem to be determined to that end. With the right equipment and support Ukraine can put Russian forces on the back foot and mitigate their ability to recover in the longer term to regain the initiative, possibly sufficient to gain Ukraine security guarantees against future incursions robust enough to withstand future Russian intentions, which likely wouldn't work if Russia manages through its actions to succeed in some of its goals now.
 
Lord-Jaffa said:
We have no say in any of that.
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Yes we do, WE inserted ourselves into this again, Budapest Memorandum, go read it just once, and see what we got out of the deal and what Ukraine gave up.

Now if you are saying "lol not really you're on you're own" to it then OK Ukraine and every other threatened country might as well start firing up those WMDs.

I wonder how safe you'd feel once a few "bigeye" drones are developed and out in the wild, for example.
 
Sythe79 said:
Yes we do, WE inserted ourselves into this again, Budapest Memorandum, go read it just once, and see what we got out of the deal and what Ukraine gave up.

Now if you are saying "lol not really you're on you're own" to it then OK Ukraine and every other threatened country might as well start firing up those WMDs.

I wonder how safe you'd feel once a few "bigeye" drones are developed and out in the wild, for example.
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Have nuclear weapons been used then?

It's all meaningless anyway when psyops from both sides have constantly meddled in the country for decades.

www.theguardian.com

It's not Russia that's pushed Ukraine to the brink of war | Seumas Milne

Seumas Milne: The attempt to lever Kiev into the western camp by ousting an elected leader made conflict certain. It could be a threat to us all
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
Lord-Jaffa said:
Have nuclear weapons been used then?

It's all meaningless anyway when psyops from both sides have constantly meddled in the country for decades.

www.theguardian.com

It's not Russia that's pushed Ukraine to the brink of war | Seumas Milne

Seumas Milne: The attempt to lever Kiev into the western camp by ousting an elected leader made conflict certain. It could be a threat to us all
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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If the UK invaded Ukraine and held sham referendums, that would be OK with you?
 
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Lord-Jaffa said:
People in this thread would have us all conscripted and in the trenches dying if they could (apart from themselves of course). The sooner the war ends the better for everyone. Ukraine has to accept its current position, its just not feasible to regain its territory, the losses are going to be astronomical.
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More nonsense from the nonsense factory. We simply want to fully support Ukraine in defending itself from an invader and an invader that has behaved little better than Germany in 1939/40. Ukraine gets to decide when they've had enough, not you not us. Some said we should have appeased Germany in 1940 when our backs were to the wall. Thankfully our grandparents thought different.

Lord-Jaffa said:
Have nuclear weapons been used then?

It's all meaningless anyway when psyops from both sides have constantly meddled in the country for decades.

www.theguardian.com

It's not Russia that's pushed Ukraine to the brink of war | Seumas Milne

Seumas Milne: The attempt to lever Kiev into the western camp by ousting an elected leader made conflict certain. It could be a threat to us all
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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You are quoting a Guardian article because it suits your narrative. Their president was removed by their parliament because he lied to the nation and was in Putin's pocket. Their citizens saw how well former soviet nations were doing in the EU and how poorly those under the Russian boot were doing and said we'll take the EU please. Belarus citizens want the same thing but Putin sent in the troops to put their protests down and another election that was as corrupt as the Russian ones left them with their dictator for the foreseeable.

You and Roar don't give two ***** about Ukraine or Ukrainians, so don't pretend you do.
 
Lord-Jaffa said:
Have nuclear weapons been used then?

It's all meaningless anyway when psyops from both sides have constantly meddled in the country for decades.

www.theguardian.com

It's not Russia that's pushed Ukraine to the brink of war | Seumas Milne

Seumas Milne: The attempt to lever Kiev into the western camp by ousting an elected leader made conflict certain. It could be a threat to us all
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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I clicked on that, only to find it was nine years old and written by Seumas Milne, and therefore contrarian nonsense.

He's always good for a laugh, unless you're a member of the Labour Party.
 
Lord-Jaffa said:
People in this thread would have us all conscripted and in the trenches dying if they could
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Hilarious nonsense.

Lord-Jaffa said:
The sooner the war ends the better for everyone.
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Agreed. Now ask yourself why Putin refuses to end it.

Lord-Jaffa said:
Ukraine has to accept its current position, its just not feasible to regain its territory, the losses are going to be astronomical.
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You would have been a real help in WWII.

'Sorry Poland, France, and everyone else Germany is currently occupying, you'll have to accept your current position. It's just not feasible to regain your territory, the losses are going to be astronomical.'

That's Lord Haw Haw rhetoric.

The losses in this war have been significant, but not unsustainable, and Ukraine is regaining territory. Astronomical losses are counted in the millions, not the tens of thousands. We're not going to see millions of dead from this war. We didn't even see millions of dead from ~20 years in Iraq.
 
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