Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Money spent on the army also employs people in the economy, so it's not as if it gets deleted entirely. Investment in the armed forces gives us a presence on the world stage as well. Though we should go quality > quantity as we simply lack the manpower to spin up a zerg army.
 
Roar87 said:
I mean with that logic Russia could treat Ukrainian attacks on Moscow as an attack by NATO against the Russian Federation.
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So Ukraine or individuals fighting in Ukraine are NATO sponsored mercenaries effectively directly attached to and under NATO command?

Ultimately Russia has only brought it on themselves though so they can't really complain.
 
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Rroff said:
So Ukraine or individuals fighting in Ukraine are NATO sponsored mercenaries effectively directly attached to and under NATO command?

Ultimately Russia has only brought it on themselves though so they can't really complain.
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Yes to the bolded, to state the obvious it's a proxy war. We're feeding Ukraine intelligence, weapons, ammo, vehicles and equipment whilst giving strategic and tactical advice. It would be reasonable for Russia to treat an attack on their territory as being by a member of NATO, which Ukraine de facto is. The US has said Wagner attacking Poland is a red line but we wouldn't actually do anything except annihilate the Wagner troops, and Poland could do that on their own easily.
 
Roar87 said:
I mean with that logic Russia could treat Ukrainian attacks on Moscow as an attack by NATO against the Russian Federation.
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Err no. Belarus invades or wagner?

You remember putin has already stated that wagner has been adopted as a russian military unit.
Thus if russia invaded poland then that would be article 5.

Ukraine forces are doing the fighting hence. Ukraine is not an extension of NATO military.
 
Roar87 said:
Yes to the bolded, to state the obvious it's a proxy war. We're feeding Ukraine intelligence, weapons, ammo, vehicles and equipment whilst giving strategic and tactical advice. It would be reasonable for Russia to treat an attack on their territory as being by a member of NATO, which Ukraine de facto is. The US has said Wagner attacking Poland is a red line but we wouldn't actually do anything except annihilate the Wagner troops, and Poland could do that on their own easily.
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Understandable I think rather than reasonable given Russia is the one who invaded here, there is nothing reasonable about their position.
 
Roar87 said:
Yes to the bolded, to state the obvious it's a proxy war. We're feeding Ukraine intelligence, weapons, ammo, vehicles and equipment whilst giving strategic and tactical advice. It would be reasonable for Russia to treat an attack on their territory as being by a member of NATO, which Ukraine de facto is. The US has said Wagner attacking Poland is a red line but we wouldn't actually do anything except annihilate the Wagner troops, and Poland could do that on their own easily.
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Some facts. Ukraine isn’t part of NATO.
Russia isn’t being attacked being by NATO. NATO isn’t in a proxy war with anyone. Wagner are a military force acting under the control and in the interests of Russia, but outside of Russian military doctrine and with impunity to Russian law.

Think of Wager as the military equivalent to Sergey Fedotov, Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov.
 
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Roar87 said:
Yes to the bolded, to state the obvious it's a proxy war. We're feeding Ukraine intelligence, weapons, ammo, vehicles and equipment whilst giving strategic and tactical advice. It would be reasonable for Russia to treat an attack on their territory as being by a member of NATO, which Ukraine de facto is. The US has said Wagner attacking Poland is a red line but we wouldn't actually do anything except annihilate the Wagner troops, and Poland could do that on their own easily.
Click to expand...
People in this thread would have us all conscripted and in the trenches dying if they could (apart from themselves of course). The sooner the war ends the better for everyone. Ukraine has to accept its current position, its just not feasible to regain its territory, the losses are going to be astronomical.
 
NickK said:
Err no. Belarus invades or wagner?

You remember putin has already stated that wagner has been adopted as a russian military unit.
Thus if russia invaded poland then that would be article 5.

Ukraine forces are doing the fighting hence. Ukraine is not an extension of NATO military.
Click to expand...

I think it would be smart for Wagner not to attack Poland, which I'm sure they won't, if they did Poland could definitely trigger article 5 and would be well within their rights to do so - more likely they'd just kill every member of Wagner on their territory without much fuss. We wouldn't treat it as an attack by Russia though, even if we say we would, what would that even mean? We'd go to war with Russia, invade Moscow? Whitehouse is talking *****.
 
Lord-Jaffa said:
People in this thread would have us all conscripted and in the trenches dying if they could (apart from themselves of course). The sooner the war ends the better for everyone. Ukraine has to accept its current position, its just not feasible to regain its territory, the losses are going to be astronomical.
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Yeah, but this Putin we are talking about.
 
jigger said:
Some facts. Ukraine isn’t part of NATO.
Russia isn’t being attacked being by NATO. NATO isn’t in a proxy war with anyone. Wagner are a military force acting under the control and in the interests of Russia, but outside of Russian military doctrine and with impunity to Russian law.

Think of Wager as the military equivalent to Sergey Fedotov, Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov.
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I might say I'm not in a relationship with your sister, but if we're holding hands, going out for romantic meals together, and both have no interest in seeing anyone else, then we're de facto a couple. This is what is Ukraine and NATO are.
 
Lord-Jaffa said:
People in this thread would have us all conscripted and in the trenches dying if they could (apart from themselves of course). The sooner the war ends the better for everyone. Ukraine has to accept its current position, its just not feasible to regain its territory, the losses are going to be astronomical.
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Your post has about as much meaning as it would if you'd just randomly pressed keys on the keyboard and submitted it - it needs to end, as soon as possible, in a way which as much as possible is good for everyone. We need to make sure, amongst other things, this doesn't set a precedent which causes more misery in the future on a much larger scale or allows Russia to simply pause, rebuild, and start all over again.
 
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