Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Roar87 said:
Negotiate an end to the fighting, preferably with Russian withdrawal.

I don't think it's true that Russia isn't interested, Zelensky unreservedly said he wouldn't negotiate while Putin was in charge. Russia have negotiated *plenty* of treaties in the past. The US and Russia have loads of international treaties which Russia has stuck to, Russia also stuck to the grain deal. Russia at this stage almost certainly wants to end this war, you'd have to be stupid to think they currently expect to gain ground. No side is gaining ground, that's kind of the point.

The West hasn't been attacked though, we weren't necessarily wrong. Russia was never going to attack a NATO member, at least not directly in a way we'd need to a massive military response.
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Russia dismissed negotiations out of hand at the last UN assembly.

Now Russia understand they can only lose ground the rhetoric has changed.

Putin public disagrees with your opinions. Putin wants Russia to control everything within the former USSR borders.

The Ukrainians are gaining ground. Russia is losing this war along with its influence.
 
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Roar87 said:
You have 20 men, I have 50 men. You lose 10 men, I lose 20 men. You now have 10 men, I have 30. Who is winning?
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2 to 1 loses is optimistic for the Russian side, maybe if you include all the civilians they've murdered.

Equipment loses track at 3 or 4-1 if you were completely neutral taking into account nothing else, you would expect man power loses to be similar.
 
Sythe79 said:
2 to 1 loses is optimistic for the Russian side, maybe if you include all the civilians they've murdered.

Equipment loses track at 3 or 4-1 if you were completely neutral taking into account nothing else, you would expect man power loses to be similar.
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I think it's being generous considering this is World War 1 style fighting except Russia has fired 9 times the amount of artillery shells and most of the deaths in similar conflicts have come from artillery. Feel free to check the amount of deaths in World War 1 and World War 2 from artillery, and look at the numbers fired by each side in this conflict, and then consider how it's possible for Russia to have some extreme level of casualties compared to Ukraine. There's a lot of focus on equipment and tank losses, but they're fighting in trenches, not having large scale tank battles.
 
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Roar87 said:
I think it's being generous considering this is World War 1 style fighting except Russia has fired 9 times the amount of artillery shells and most of the deaths in similar conflicts have come from artillery. Feel free to check the amount of deaths in World War 1 and World War 2 from artillery, and look at the numbers fired by each side in this conflict, and then consider how it's possible for Russia to have some extreme level of casualties compared to Ukraine. There's a lot of focus on equipment and tank losses, but they're fighting in trenches, not having large scale tank battles.
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Russia need to use 9x the artillery because they’re inept. The Russians aren’t capable of holding this war to WW1 standards.
 
Roar87 said:
I think it's being generous considering this is World War 1 style fighting except Russia has fired 9 times the amount of artillery shells and most of the deaths in similar conflicts have come from artillery. Feel free to check the amount of deaths in World War 1 and World War 2 from artillery, and look at the numbers fired by each side in this conflict, and then consider how it's possible for Russia to have some extreme level of casualties compared to Ukraine. There's a lot of focus on equipment and tank losses, but they're fighting in trenches, not having large scale tank battles.
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Russia might be fighting like ww1 The Ukrainians aren't. artillery really isn't very effective even against a line of millions of men, like ww1 it did stop you doing anything tho.

By your own example, if the loses were really 2 to 1 you would expect the Russian to be making ground constantly by sheer weight of numbers, like WW2, they aren't.
 
Roar87 said:
Negotiate an end to the fighting, preferably with Russian withdrawal.

I don't think it's true that Russia isn't interested, Zelensky unreservedly said he wouldn't negotiate while Putin was in charge. Russia have negotiated *plenty* of treaties in the past. The US and Russia have loads of international treaties which Russia has stuck to, Russia also stuck to the grain deal. Russia at this stage almost certainly wants to end this war, you'd have to be stupid to think they currently expect to gain ground. No side is gaining ground, that's kind of the point.

The West hasn't been attacked though, we weren't necessarily wrong. Russia was never going to attack a NATO member, at least not directly in a way we'd need to a massive military response.
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Russia has thrown large amounts of men and equipment at this war and Putin has demonstrated they are prepared to sustain WW2 level losses, they aren't going to withdraw...

This is a very different scenario to peace time US and Russia treaties and multiple times Russia has been shown they can't be trusted in this situation. They only, somewhat, abided with the grain deal because some of the countries who benefit from it most like Egypt are big Russian customers for things like defence industry.

Russia has shown zero interest in ending this war, they are still mobilising man power as if they expect to be able to overwhelm Ukraine, banking on a collapse of support from the West.

If the West had been better prepared we could have much more capably ramped up supplies to Ukraine.
 
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Roar87 said:
I get it, Ukraine is taking a big bite out of a **** sandwich. It's just there seems to be an illusion of choice.
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Exactly. Ukraine have no choice but to continue fighting now. If (maybe even when) Russia wins then the murders and rapes will be just like the Nazi occupation of France. Some Ukrainians will resort to guerilla warfare in the same way that the French Resistance had to, resulting in deaths and reprisals. The hate between the two countries is now off the scale. Negotiating for peace will not result in actual peace. Ukraine have no choice. It is an illusion.

I do worry that Russia may still overwhelm Ukraine once Western support fades.
 
Hades said:
Exactly. Ukraine have no choice but to continue fighting now. If (maybe even when) Russia wins then the murders and rapes will be just like the Nazi occupation of France. Some Ukrainians will resort to guerilla warfare in the same way that the French Resistance had to, resulting in deaths and reprisals. The hate between the two countries is now off the scale. Negotiating for peace will not result in actual peace. Ukraine have no choice. It is an illusion.

I do worry that Russia may still overwhelm Ukraine once Western support fades.
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I think the average Russian hates the West far more than any Ukrainian, most of them just want to get home in one piece. I think most Ukrainians at this stage would be happy to see an end to the fighting. Curious if there's any opinion polls on this but I suspect not.
 
Roar87 said:
I think it's being generous considering this is World War 1 style fighting except Russia has fired 9 times the amount of artillery shells and most of the deaths in similar conflicts have come from artillery. Feel free to check the amount of deaths in World War 1 and World War 2 from artillery, and look at the numbers fired by each side in this conflict, and then consider how it's possible for Russia to have some extreme level of casualties compared to Ukraine. There's a lot of focus on equipment and tank losses, but they're fighting in trenches, not having large scale tank battles.
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Russia need to use 9x the artillery shells because their artillery have fired too many rounds through the barrels without the proper maintenance, making them very very inaccurate, apparently barrel failure rates are off the charts, that’s why Ukrainian casualties aren’t as high.
 
Roar87 said:
I think the average Russian hates the West far more than any Ukrainian, most of them just want to get home in one piece. I think most Ukrainians at this stage would be happy to see an end to the fighting. Curious if there's any opinion polls on this but I suspect not.
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Nope. Not as one sided as it was, but by 2:1 Ukrainians back fighting until the war is won.
 
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