Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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The metadiscussion above is off-topic, and the same spurious complaints by keef247 could be made about any topic.

One very useful educative point about this thread on the war in ukraine is that it reminds us that just minding your own business (like Ukraine was doing) is no guarantee of safety against a thief, rapist and murderer.

For me, I see in the Ukraine war why modern militaries are essential, not an optional extra.
 
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keef247 said:
I'm all for people to discuss stuff relating to actual experience. But it has to be up to date and constant, not just 'it once was like this so probs is now' type bias/vague speculation. First hand experience with that matter at hand, or it is just speculation/bias/grabbing at straws.

But all these 'sources' are just controlled media or idiots of XYZ apposing opinions being bigots on social media claiming their opinion means anything because they have followers/write for XYZ opinion bias media source.

Sources that we will never have any proof of legitimacy/bias. And the whole side taking thing is ridiculous, I remember thinking what if I just didn't agree with either opinion?
But it's all forced side taking and dick waving who's better/right. When we don't know, we're not there.
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You're whole framing of this is wrong, imo.

Sources that we will never have any proof of legitimacy/bias.
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We have the whole history of information from a news source to be able to judge it's veracity and political bias/slant and use that to judge the information by. Not everything is just right or wrong, "a fact" can have differeing interpretations.

And the whole side taking thing is ridiculous
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Not particularly, especially in something like a war, it's quite natural to 'take a side' (unless you're Switzerland ofc ;) )

I remember thinking what if I just didn't agree with either opinion?
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You seem to be limiting things to only having 2 opinions? There are a million shades of grey between every opposing position, you are perfectly welcome to sit anywhere on that scale with your own opinion. And as long as you can back that up with logical reasoning and robust data then it's as valid as anyone elses. An uninformed opinion that can't be backed up with reasoning and is just based on feels, will rightly be discredited though.

But it's all forced side taking and dick waving who's better/right. When we don't know, we're not there.
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Can't say I've seen much 'dick waving' ITT? This isn't the Nvidia/AMD thread :p

And it's a bit silly to say you can't discuss or have an opinion on something unless you actually experience it first hand - which tbh, won't always be the best way to get an overview of the complete situation anyway and certainly doesn't mean you don't have any confirmational/internal bias anyway.
 
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The phrase zero first hand experience is an interesting one. I mean none of us (that I am aware of) are on the front line for either side. But the fallout of the conflict has given many of us first hand experience of consequences to supply line issues. Both in materials and fuel, which directly related to our energy bills, especially last year. Porsche and looms was another one wasn't it?

Discussing a modern conflict in Europe is definitely something we should be doing.
 
Indeed, plenty more sanctions we can hit them with. Some dubious vendors are also still selling goods.

Bring Putin to his knees so the people rip off his head.
 
bingham67 said:
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Also starts putting the russian oil fields in range.. i was looking at those in ural and western regions in range.. west siberia probably a little too far.

It should be noted only europe and china have oil pipelines, the remainder of oil is transported via tanker… from petersberg. That includes India’s oil supply and many African countries where the oil is being used to bribe.. err I mean trade..
 
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Bug One said:
I don't get why we're buying these. We need to ramp up our own production.

If this war has shown anything, it's that we shouldn't be so heavily reliant on USA for things that we could easily be doing ourselves.
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I think when they say "buy" what they mean is buy it from themselves
 
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Bug One said:
I don't get why we're buying these. We need to ramp up our own production.

If this war has shown anything, it's that we shouldn't be so heavily reliant on USA for things that we could easily be doing ourselves.
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Crocodile closest to the boat. Yes its important to stockpile our own. However, Ukraine is hanging out for Artillery shells. At the moment, as heartless as it sounds, its a lot better investment of money to let Ukraine grind down one of the largest potential threats. They are doing an incredible job of it so far.
 
Situation looks dire, on the basis of this report at least


AP says the shells will not arrive quickly as delivery on orders takes 24 to 36 months, according to the NATO agency.


A NATO representative informed Reuters that the first batch of deliveries might be completed by the end of 2025. However, the timeline provided on 23 January indicates that certain ammunition may not reach Ukraine until 2027, Newsweek noted.
 
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