We don't need to go to full economic war, but the situation certainly needs to be tackled with a more war footing mentality to financing and production - it might seem expensive now but it will be a fraction of the costs we are likely going to incur if things head down the path of Cold War 2.0, let alone if Russia's intentions don't end at Ukraine.
Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar
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We don't need to go to full economic war, but the situation certainly needs to be tackled with a more war footing mentality to financing and production - it might seem expensive now but it will be a fraction of the costs we are likely going to incur if things head down the path of Cold War 2.0, let alone if Russia's intentions don't end at Ukraine.
Soldato
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We should be able to collectively out-produce Russia on armaments whilst not killing our economies, the GDP of EU is far, far higher than Russia, and it looks like we'd need more armaments anyway due to the whole NATO on the border with Russia thing we have going on (cold war mk.2).
It sounds like we need to ramp up production not just for Ukraine, but for our own stockpiles as well.
It sounds like we need to ramp up production not just for Ukraine, but for our own stockpiles as well.
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The strategy is to make Russian armaments look like garbage because it is so it has no customers which it no longer does, mission accomplished.
Everything that I've been reading lately is that we don't have enough stockpiles of ammunition to keep giving Ukraine. The problem with production is that the West/Europe hasn't been on a war footing for some time and have been dwindling supplies for years. We don't have the infrastructure to just start mass production of
the artillery that Ukraine needs. Russia, on the other hand have and always had the ability to mass produce their weapons. In fact chips and computer hardware that they need for their missiles, etc has still been getting through depsite sanctions, and has been coming from the U.S companies like Texas Instruments - not directly of course.
The problem for Ukraine has never been all about the equipment, though of course it's been pivatol in the early part of the war. Their problem has always been numbers on the ground - actual people fighting a conventional war. To put this in to some form of context, Russia had in one small region of their frontline assault 40,000 soldiers - that is half of the available troops the U.K has as whole. Ukraine as hard as they have been fighting are seeing wave after wave of Russian re-supply of troops. Going 100% in to this means more than just weapons for Ukraine, it means going in with boots on the ground, and that is where the line has always been drawn. The best thing Ukraine could do is to have enough long range weapons to seriously damage Russia's infrastructure and more importanly their cash cow, the oil & gas.
Russia will run out of man power before you run out of dumb takes... clearly the strategy isn't to just keep firing artillery, but to use it to support advances and degrade Russia's capability to oppose that.
Probably not 40,000 combat troops but we'd struggle to put more than 20,000 boots on the ground in a similar situation with the current state of our armed forces. Albeit if properly equipped and properly supported with logistics, etc. they'd probably be able to deal with a far larger Russian force than that especially if we can maintain control of the skies.
Problem being that the entire British/Western European military doctrine and equipment purchasing of the past 75 years has been geared/designed towards hiding behind America :\
"I remain a master strategist.
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It's worth noting that the value of the ammunition/ordinance/equipment fired in, destroyed in, and sent to the Ukrainian theatre in the last two years exceeds what was fired in and destroyed in both 8 years of Iraq and 19 years of Afghanistan combined. Hell you could throw Libya into the figures and not even notice.
EU: 'Sorry we didn't give you the 1 million shells we promised.'
Ukraine: 'OK, but they're on the way now, right?'
EU: 'Oh sure, they'll be there just in time for Christmas.'
Wow, I did not realise that.
Ukraine: 'OK, but they're on the way now, right?'
EU: 'Oh sure, they'll be there just in time for Christmas.'
Wow, I did not realise that.
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Soldato
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I think it's more a case of "we'll give you what we can"... p.s. but we won't invest in expanding our military capability of producing arms because we're not at war ourselves, best of luck xxx
incredibly stupid decision or lack of decision
Worst Ukraine please stop winning post ever.
Honestly... I expect a bit better.
Actually are Ukraine winning right now? I mean not losing is winning to some degree. Are we still saying winning is possible with the current trickle of arms or is it a slow lose, all things equal... I assume there must be a boost coming a real game changer..
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Its hard to get better than winning? All Ukraine can do is beat what Vladolf puts in front of them.
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No one wants, politically, to be the one writing the cheque :s and it probably won't be them having to pay the much bigger costs down the road
No one wants, politically, to be the one writing the cheque :s and it probably won't be them having to pay the much bigger costs down the road
I honestly feel NATO should act collectively and ask each nation to make a small investment in basic armament production capabilities.
Definitely needs to be some coordination across the whole spectrum from production all the way to physical fighting units.
Should be the biggest wake up and shake up in decades.
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Soldato
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It's not a subject I pay close attention to but do periodically check out seemingly informed opinion pieces. Is Ukraine not at risk of running out of suitable soldiers? I accept the death tolls for the Russians are far higher but proportionally they represent a smaller segment of the pool of available soldiers. Are we not reaching the point where even with more offensive capability Ukraine will lack the army to do anything with it?
Off hand:
Vietnam vs the USA - China and the USSR gave the Viet Cong everything they needed to force the USA to run away with it's tail between it's legs (the only war it lost in the 20th century and only it's second ever*).
Afghanistan vs the USSR - The USA gave Osama and the boys everything they needed to basically take on Russia and Ukraine at the same time and come out victorious (this in no way came back to haunt the USA, NY specifically).
Britain vs Argentina - The USA gave us the fuel and weapons we required to retake the Falklands.
Israel vs Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Jordan and Lebanon - Supplies from the USA helped Israel take on five countries at once, even conquering territory from three of them (yes this includes Gaza, probably a bad idea to keep it in hindsight lol).
Azerbaijan vs Armenia - This (until recently) was a draw, however as Turkey and Russia were each backing a different side and it would have been a whitewash with only one involved I think it counts as having worked.
Switzerland vs Everyone - I mean, if loaning one (or more) sides in a war money they can use to buy weapons/etc from whoever's selling them counts then the Swiss are the gods of war xD
*If anyone's wondering the first war the USA lost was against Britain, they invaded what is now Canada and it went so well our counterattack involved setting fire to the white house (500KM from the border). They claim it was a draw as they negotiated a cessation rather than surrendering, but when you lose your own surprise invasion and have to sue for peace that's a loss in everyone else's book.
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Soldato
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Governments need to make bigger orders to the privatised industries in order to get them to invest in more capacity or government needs to just nationalise arms production so it's not based on profit but neccessity
Not really great statistics for them
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