Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

[Mr Jack]

Paradoxically the more Germany spends on re-armament the less it has to use for alternatives to gas. Germany has benefitted a lot since WW2 by not spending money on the latest big bang generals want.

The initial re-arming and the cost of rapidly refitting away from Russian gas is being funded from borrowing rather than taxation, and Germany could borrow the money need for this many times over, so I don't think it's a real concern. The FDP's goal for fiscal neutrality has been abandoned.

I saw OSINT accounts on Twitter reporting that before Russia pulled back from their advance on Kiev, that they were evacuating bus loads of soldiers from the Chernobyl site with acute radiation poisoning to field hospitals in Belarus, and that there had been deaths.

This isn't true. The radioactive material around Chernobyl isn't that dangerous anymore. The most radioactive (and thus most dangerous) material is also the fastest decaying and thus already gone. Long term issues may well occur but acute deaths won't.

 

[Rroff]

This isn't true. The radioactive material around Chernobyl isn't that dangerous anymore. The most radioactive (and thus most dangerous) material is also the fastest decaying and thus already gone. Long term issues may well occur but acute deaths won't.

Not something I've looked into but I remember from videos of people who've visited Chernobyl in a less than authorised manner i.e. Shiey - it is OK until you start digging and then it can still be highly radioactive enough to be acute - supposedly - but that might be a misunderstanding (and/or them being dramatic).

 

[Harlequin]

The material under the surface in the red forrest is still very dangerous if you dig it and breathe it in

 

[Mr Jack]

Not something I've looked into but I remember from videos of people who've visited Chernobyl in a less than authorised manner i.e. Shiey - it is OK until you start digging and then it can still be highly radioactive enough to be acute - supposedly but that might be a misunderstanding (and/or them being dramatic).

Despite the sheer horror of Chernobyl, there were a total of around 240 acute radiation poisoning deaths at the time. Those people were exposed to radiation at the plant itself, not fallout in the surrounding area. That fallout was probably never dangerous enough to cause acute poisoning (still deadly but not acute) and after 40 years the most dangerous stuff has long since decayed, Iodine for example has an 8 day half-life. The stuff that is left is mostly Strontium-90 and Caesium-137 which have half lives of about 30 years, they are extremely dangerous to human health, especially if breathed in. But you're looking at a slow death from cancer not acute radiation poisoning.

 

[Rroff]

Despite the sheer horror of Chernobyl, there were a total of around 240 acute radiation poisoning deaths at the time. Those people were exposed to radiation at the plant itself, not fallout in the surrounding area. That fallout was probably never dangerous enough to cause acute poisoning (still deadly but not acute) and after 40 years the most dangerous stuff has long since decayed, Iodine for example has an 8 day half-life. The stuff that is left is mostly Strontium-90 and Caesium-137 which have half lives of about 30 years, they are extremely dangerous to human health, especially if breathed in. But you're looking at a slow death from cancer not acute radiation poisoning.

Just reading up on it a bit - seems soil remains highly radioactive with iodine 129 still present at high levels despite the decay of 131 as well as other radioactive isotopes - though the max sampled I can find from quickly Googling is just under 400uSv/h which is well short of an acute dose.

EDIT: Though if you were spending days around that stuff it would be very bad, potentially enough to bring on acute sickness.

 

[alchal]

Well ****......

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521187952461762566

This is Putin's main rival, the guy who almost beat Yeltsin, the leader of the party who have been #2 in the polls since the Russian Federation was founded, Putin's main opposition, looks like he plans on going after Putin for being too soft on Ukraine

It's funny, in another forum that's full of pro russians one pro everything russian talked about putin been pro western and the main opposition actually being far far worse and not more pro western as we would hope.

Guess he was kind of right, scary.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

The material under the surface in the red forrest is still very dangerous if you dig it and breathe it in

I would imagine its the breathing in of the dust that could be the real problem. Even alpha decay in your lungs is a real problem.

 

[Turn]

Past 4hrs:
*Pope Francis: I Am Ready to Meet Russia’s President Putin in Moscow - Paper
*Pope Francis: Still Waiting For an Answer From Putin, He Fears Putin “Cannot, Does Not Want to Make This Meeting at This Time”- Paper
*Pope Francis: Moscow Perhaps Reacted to NATO ‘Barking at Russia’s Gate’- Paper
*Pope Francis: Russian Orthodox Patriarch Kirill, “Cannot Become Putin’s Altar Boy” - Paper
*Pope Francis: Hungary’s Orban Told Him Russia’s Plan Is to End the War on May 9 - Paper

*Mariupol Mayor: More Than 200 Civilians Are Still Holed Up With Fighters in City’s Azovstal Steel Works
*Mariupol Mayor: About 100,000 Civilians Are Still in the Southern Ukrainian City

*Hungary Foreign Minister: Hungary Will Not Vote for Sanctions That Would Make Russian Oil and Gas Shipments to Hungary Impossible
*Hungary Foreign Minister: Russian Oil Accounts for About 65% of Oil Hungary Needs Right Now
*Hungary Foreign Minister: There Are No Alternative Routes to Make Up for This

*Some Holders of Two Russian Sovereign Bonds Where $650 mln in Payments Were Due on April 4 Have Received the Funds- Source

*Germany’s Bafin: Direct Effects of Russia-Ukraine War and Sanctions Manageable for German Financial System
*Germany’s Bafin: Second-and Third-Round Effects Could Be Problematic
*Germany’s Bafin: Sudden and Hefty Interest Rate Increase Could Create Difficulties for Banks
*Germany’s Bafin: Cyberattacks Pose Very Big and Present Danger

 

[Rroff]

I would imagine its the breathing in of the dust that could be the real problem. Even alpha decay in your lungs is a real problem.

Dunno about breathing it in but the estimates seem to be for the average activities of the soldiers they would be exposed in a week to approx. the same dose of radiation as an airline crew would be in a year - not great, not terrible.

Acute sickness seems unlikely unless they were literally digging in the worst stuff and licking it :s

 

[EddScott]

Having been to Chornobyl numerous times, the dust thrown up from passing trucks is a bit of a worry. Although we are fed by the Babushkas at least once during our stay and that's all home grown.

It's not difficult to find the odd bit of carbon. The room with the firefighters clothes is a little scary but that was sealed up in recent years.

 

[Turn]

*Russia’s Putin Signs Decree on Retaliatory Economic Measures in Response to Unfriendly Actions of Some Foreign States - Kremlin

*Italy’s Prime Minister: Tells European Parliament There Is a Strong Risk That Rising Food Prices Due to the Ukrainian Crisis and Reduced Availability of Fertilisers Will Lead to Food Crises
*Italy’s Prime Minister: A Conference Should Be Held to Rationalise and Optimise Defence Investment In Europe
*Italy’s Prime Minister: Europe Must Overcome Principle of Unanimity and Move Towards Decisions Taken by Qualified Majority
*Italy’s Prime Minister: Italy Supports EU Membership of Ukraine, Albania, North Macedonia, Serbia, Montenegro, Bosnia Erzegovina, Kosovo
*Italy’s Prime Minister: Italy Will Take All Necessary Decisions to Defend National and European Energy Security
*Italy’s Prime Minister: Italy and Southern European Countries Can Collect Energy Production From Africa and Middle East and Act As a Bridge to Northern Europe
*Italy’s Prime Minister: Calls On European Council to Adopt “Strong and Immediate” Decision on Energy Costs at Next Meeting
*Italy’s Prime Minister: EU Should Adapt Schemes Deployed During Pandemic to Handle Consequences of Ukraine Crisis and Surging Energy Costs

*German Chancellor Scholz: It Is Clear That if Finland, Sweden Decide to Join NATO Can Count On Our Support
*German Chancellor Scholz: no one Can Assume That Russia Will Not Attack Other Countries

 

[Washout]

It's funny, in another forum that's full of pro russians one pro everything russian talked about putin been pro western and the main opposition actually being far far worse and not more pro western as we would hope.

Guess he was kind of right, scary.

I suspect he’s the only rival because Putin allows him to be. Another useful idiot. Any others that could present a credible alternative and better future for Russia are long since silenced and locked away/dead.
I’d hope one of these would rise back up should Putin croak it. No getting around it though, could get messy.

 

[do_ron_ron]

The initial re-arming and the cost of rapidly refitting away from Russian gas is being funded from borrowing rather than taxation, and Germany could borrow the money need for this many times over, so I don't think it's a real concern. The FDP's goal for fiscal neutrality has been abandoned.

Borrowing still needs to be serviced. Borrowing is not without cost regardless of whether they can afford it. The cost is money that can have went elsewhere.

 

[Mr Jack]

Borrowing still needs to be serviced. Borrowing is not without cost regardless of whether they can afford it. The cost is money that can have went elsewhere.

In the longer term, yes, but in terms of the money available to deal with immediate issues, no. Ramping up the Bundeswehr isn't going to stop spending on a rapid swivel away from Russian gas.

 

[Turn]

*Italy’s Ecology Transition Minister: A National Price Cap on Gas for Italy Would Be “Extremely Difficult”, Needs to Be Done at EU Level
*Italy’s Ecology Transition Minister: If Russian Gas Supplies Were Cut Now There Would Be Serious Problem Filling Gas Storage, Problem Dealing With Winter
*Italy’s Ecology Transition Minister: An Immediate Halt to Russian Gas Supplies Would Require Much Harsher Savings Measures
*Italy’s Ecology Transition Minister: If Russian Gas Stopped Now Italy Could Face “Critical” Winter With Gas Shortfall of 10-15 bcm In Early 2023
*Italy’s PM Draghi: Italy Will Continue Supporting Sanctions Against Russia, Including On Energy
*Italy’s PM Draghi: Govt Expects Revenue of Around 11 Billion Euros From Windfall Tax on Energy Companies

*UK PM Johnson’s Spokesman: There Are No Plans for a Windfall Tax on Energy Firms Because This Would Put at Risk Jobs in The Industry

 

[bris]

Well ****......

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521187952461762566

This is Putin's main rival, the guy who almost beat Yeltsin, the leader of the party who have been #2 in the polls since the Russian Federation was founded, Putin's main opposition, looks like he plans on going after Putin for being too soft on Ukraine

Isnt that just another Putin?

I thought Alexei Navalny was the main opposision, the one that could really bring democracy to Russia.

Unfortunately the poor guy has been tortured, poisened and jailed though so it's going to take a revolution for real change.

 

[Mr Jack]

I thought Alexei Navalny was the main opposision, the one that could really bring democracy to Russia.

Navalny is a real opposition, but I don't think he wants to really bring democracy although he's happy for Western supporters to believe that. He's certainly done his share of marching with the fascists. His goal is to replace Putin as Tsar than turn Russia into a free and prosperous democracy.

And, of course, in Russia's "elections" the only opposition allowed to run is that they are confident won't prove much of a challenge. They're there for Putin to contrast himself against not to actually achieve anything.

 

[Turn]

*Russia: Azov Servicemen and Ukrainian Armed Forces Took Advantage of Silence Regime at Azovstal Plant and Took Up Firing Positions — RIA
*Russia: Our Forces Started Destroying Those Firing Positions — RIA

 

[Minusorange]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521452061149343744

Looks like they're trying to finish off Azovstal by storming it now they've let some civilians leave

 

[Amnesia]

Who held the civilians there?
They were pretty much used as human shields.