Universal basic income to be trialled

Semple said:
Realistically the majority of people would be taxed the full amount back. I'd anticipate (without any numbers available) that anyone earning 30k would get the 20k UBI to make 50k gross, and then be taxed around 25k to leave them in the same position as they would be without any UBI.
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Why on earth would you work with those numbers?
 
413x said:
In that case I'd be one of those who would be looking for a 2-3 days a week job until. Mortgage paid off. Then I'd stop working!


Surely too many people would be same as me?
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I'd be the same.

I don't like working and I think people that do are weird. The only I reason I do, and try hard and apply myself is because the alternative is more grim.

A chance to not work, not have to worry about money so much? Hell yea, I'm up for that. It isn't, and won't ever be real though. There's always a catch.
 
JamesH85 said:
People talking about retiring earlier etc, you probably wouldn't be able to do any of those things, the cost of living would be levels above what you think is high now, the price of things would rocket. £40 for fish and chips
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Surely it depends on how they tax job-earned income.

If the effective tax means your take home pretty much stays the same, then we wouldn't see huge inflation, and it means that people just have a safety net and minimum standard of living regardless of their employment situation.

Other might reduce their hours, opening up more part-time spaces for people who want to earn a bit extra, but not wanting a 9-5.
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
May not be a bad thing if the number of jobs had reduced a lot due to Ai/robotics.

One of the benefits proposed of UBI is that it supports a return to a time when it was far more within reach of people to have more time and less money stress.

Its very simple in theory, very difficult in practice.

You then get into the realms of things like jury service. IMO you should maybe be able to accept UBI or some alternate scheme, (alternate is very much like now, but with a wealth tax)
If you accept UBI then you have to give up, say 30 days a year which you may be called up to to provide for jury service, environmental activities (eg say cleaning rivers up) that sort of thing.

Its really quite radical but if we are going to see say 40% less employment required then somehow ensuring that everyone survives, whilst still providing "enough carrot" for those jobs that need to be done, and not making it too attractive to do nothing at all is a hell of a balancing act to perform.
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Its not for everyone, and many would keep working. I just would be concerned many, (like me) only work to live.
I work to build a safety net because I want to be mortgage free. I want to use that for equity release later in life because I don't trust the state pension.

If, suddenly, UBI works. I wouldn't need this. The support would be there. You technically (with rent control) wouldn't need to own a house. Because you'd have enough UBI to have an amazing state pension.


But I certainly would stop working. I think it's too much. It deincentivises work too much.
3k per month (at today's prices) if mortgage free would be plenty for us to not work
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
I think much like pensions in theory UBI would likely be taxable, but the tax threshold would match the UBI exactly.
So everything you have as income above it is taxable, and whilst UBI itself would be taxable if you had literally no income at all above it then your tax paid would be zero.
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That's the way I see it. I'd also still expect to see several tax bands like now.

Say first £10k over UBI would be taxed at 10% (fairly low tax to encourage people to still get some work and keeping pretty much all the extra income from it as not to completely loose workforce)
£10-40k - 30% tax
£40k+ - 50% tax
 
Fubsy said:
I'd be the same.

I don't like working and I think people that do are weird. The only I reason I do, and try hard and apply myself is because the alternative is more grim.

A chance to not work, not have to worry about money so much? Hell yea, I'm up for that. It isn't, and won't ever be real though. There's always a catch.
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Too many people would be. If UBI is a livable and enjoyable basic life... To many people would sign up.
 
Ayahuasca said:
In the short term, yes, but if the new job is a different role with more responsibility or working for a more reputable company, etc., then it's another rung up the ladder and will likely open more doors.

It's one of the biggest causes of career stagnation if you only worry about the immediate effects and not the bigger picture.
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I don't disagree, but these are all gambles that a lot of people don't want to make with their livelihoods.

I was trying to make the point that you can't quantify everything just on a £ figure. If someone was having to spend an extra 40 hours a month commuting, that eats away at time they could spend with their children, or perhaps doing more of their favorite hobbies, or even just time to themselves.
 
I didn't know benefits would be stopped and replaced with UBI.

I wonder if there will be different levels as a disabled person, who can't work will need more money than someone not disabled ie to help pay for carers/helpers etc.

A regular person can get a job and doesn't have the same needed expenses.
 
dLockers said:
People piping in and claiming we don't understand it, yet offering nothing in the way of understanding. How does giving people £19k not just raise the value of '0' to 19k?
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I don't see it working.
It either causes hyper inflation, or devalues working too much that everyone stops working.
 
bayo000 said:
That's the way I see it. I'd also still expect to see several tax bands like now.

Say first £10k over UBI would be taxed at 10% (fairly low tax to encourage people to still get some work and keeping pretty much all the extra income from it as not to completely loose workforce)
£10-40k - 30% tax
£40k+ - 50% tax
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This isn't enough tax to pay for it.
 
dLockers said:
People piping in and claiming we don't understand it, yet offering nothing in the way of understanding. How does giving people £19k not just raise the value of '0' to 19k?
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sorry will not work.

Will everyone get it? What about those coming in boats across the uk would they get it or would they have to get a uk status first. If so how many more would swim over, have you taken that into account.

Now from previous posts many here are against sinking those boats or sending everyone of those back or to Rwanda.

it will never work, this before discussing the impact of monetary value.
 
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krooton said:
Isn't the point for it to cover housing, bills and food?

It's not going to sort a nice car, fancy tv/laptop, or holidays abroad.
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Problem is that depends where in the country you are. In some parts 1600 might be a struggle just for housing. Whereas in other parts you could probably use 50% of that to cover all necessities.

Does that potentially lead to more gentrification of affluent areas because even UBI can't sustain a basic income required. Or if as someone else suggested that UBI might be regional based - would councils start moving some tenants out of the area to save on costs.
 
Scheme: tax automated systems and plausibly automated imports at some rate which is equivalent to an approximation of the income tax on the labour costs of producing the equivalent outcome.

Create a "robot dividend" out of this instead of a UBI as such. This way the 'UBI' fund is always tied to the excess production of automated systems.
 
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krooton said:
Isn't the point for it to cover housing, bills and food?

It's not going to sort a nice car, fancy tv/laptop, or holidays abroad.
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If you're mortgage free... Its plenty. 3k per month?
If I use our personal circumstances

We pay 1900 into joint account for all. Household bills Inc food. (groceries)
Take 900 off (ie mortgage free) wed have over 2k per month left over. On 1600 a month each!

That's loads! Plenty enough for holidays etc!

Its 24k of disposable I come a year for free!
 
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