Universal Windows Platform and its possible impacts to PC gaming

ps3ud0 · 31 Mar 2016 at 23:51

While Im loathed to make this thread as I dont really contribute much to the PC gaming forum nowadays, I thought it would be best to get such a discussion started as I think there are some significant implications on how MSs Universal Windows Platform (UWP) could affect PC gaming right now and long-term.

As you are probably aware MS are trying to move development over to UWP and their first target appears to be gaming by utilising their XO published games which most of which are expected to turn up on Win10 within their new Win10 store.

Sounds like a good idea and on face value it is, the problem really is how these games as published as UWA(pps) and the restrictions that this has caused. When RoTR was launched it was discovered you couldnt (and this is specific to the Win10 store version and not the Steam one and indicative of how games under UWP will work):

~~You cant change Vsync - this is something that MS have said will be fixed by May~~
You cant move to exclusive fullscreen, which dependent on the game gives a small performance increase over borderless fullscreen - this doesnt seem to be something MS will fix since they think the new DX12 screen compositor will make that requirement void (i.e. its by design)
Cant use mGPU tech like Crossfire and SLI - which I believe should be fixed or expected to be very soon
~~Cant use Freesync/Gsync monitors - again MS have said this will be addressed by May~~
The rumble triggers in the XO controller only work with UWP games and not any DX12 game - AFAIK this is a specific feature only meant for UWAs
Cant use popular gfx tools like FRAPs or expect to see game mods without developer consent

Its really the final point that I feel like could be BIG issue and it doesnt seem like MS are expecting to relax that restriction mainly because of security risks...

http://www.pcgamer.com/microsofts-uwp-will-support-some-mods-but-not-all/

So it seems that mods are ok if the developer themselves setup a framework within a game to create and share them, but as you guys know most mods arent made with the developers permission and its one of the biggest USPs for PC gaming.

If UWP becomes a success beyond MS published games and other third parties begin to publish their games as UWP (only - which still seems a stretch) then there does seem to be a significant impact to what we are used to seeing from PC gaming. What do others think about the creation of UWPs and do you think theres any worry in how it might shape PC gaming?

Anyway hopefully thats an useful overview, its something thats definitely piqued my interest and I do have concerns, some of which I believe need to be voiced now rather than wait and see and be too late to get fixed.

EDIT: 10/05/2016 - V-sync unlocked, G-sync and Freesync supported

ps3ud0 :cool:

TonyTurbo78 · 31 Mar 2016 at 23:58

See my post here.

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18725245

Freesync and gsync now going to be supported, I'm hoping for other changes as well, mainly no locking of fps.

Mynight · 31 Mar 2016 at 23:59

Maybe I'm missing something but I get the impression UWP intends to reduce the development load of Xbox and PC by reducing it to a single iteration. This worries me that we'll end up with much more consol like games.

If I'm wrong and it's just easier "more secure" deployment and PC doesn't get consol content then it will probably still be a bad thing. Although it may reduce cheating considerably(only briefly looked at it but it appears it's completely sandboxed as such hooks into the game would be very difficult).

I guess fraps could just rewrite as an appx and distribute through the store.

I think Microsoft likes the look of apples closed system and wants to get in on it to.

Martini1991 · 31 Mar 2016 at 23:59

Any game on Windows Store I'm missing.

It's also obvious by the recent releases that I'm not alone.
Tomb Raider has under 40 ratings on the store. That's pitiful.
Gears Of War Remaster has just over 252. That's laughable.

Also, everyone seems to be ignoring that MS stated they wouldn't compete with Steam and would support Steam. They haven't. They once again lied.
GFWL was dropped.
They've got horrendous store fragmentation.

MS aren't capable of sustaining a viable gaming ecosystem.

Mynight · 1 Apr 2016 at 00:04

Martini1991 said:
MS aren't capable of sustaining a viable gaming ecosystem.

Problem is they may play hard ball and require exclusivity for their PC store if the publisher wants to release on Xbox. No publisher would turn down the ability to release on Xbox.

Pretty sure win 10 having the ability to detect and remove pirated games could be a big selling point for the store as well.

ps3ud0 · 1 Apr 2016 at 00:13

TonyTurbo78 said:
See my post here.

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18725245

Freesync and gsync now going to be supported, I'm hoping for other changes as well, mainly no locking of fps.

Yeah I saw that thread but didnt want to ruin it with the above, kinda feels like not seeing the wood for all the trees. I noticed a few of the posts on UWP were also in the QB thread so thought best to get something that has a vague overview created - didnt think it be so long though...

Mynight said:
Maybe I'm missing something but I get the impression UWP intends to reduce the development load of Xbox and PC by reducing it to a single iteration. This worries me that we'll end up with much more consol like games.

If I'm wrong and it's just easier "more secure" deployment and PC doesn't get consol content then it will probably still be a bad thing. Although it may reduce cheating considerably(only briefly looked at it but it appears it's completely sandboxed as such hooks into the game would be very difficult).

I dont think theres any real implication of UWP really making PC and console gaming the same outside of the many other factors that are doing so - its not really its purpose.

Think of it more like while consoles are becoming more PC-like with all the recent iteration rumours, PC are becoming more like consoles because of the possibility of UWPs success within the Win10 store. That success though requires other publishers to take UWP seriously enough to make it the defacto app package which is a major crux.

Mynight said:
I think Microsoft likes the look of apples closed system and wants to get in on it to.

Win10 store lets face it is MSs attempt to recreate the mobile App Store and Google Play for Windows so it can leverage its popularity on hardware platforms it isnt competing well in.

ps3ud0 :cool:

Martini1991 · 1 Apr 2016 at 00:16

ps3ud0 said:
Win10 store lets face it is MSs attempt to recreate the mobile App Store and Google Play for Windows so it can leverage its popularity on hardware platforms it isnt competing well in.

The problem being is this is like MS's 3rd try at that, and in terms of stores, goes even further.

Gregster · 1 Apr 2016 at 01:20

I don't normally do politics with games and happy for people to buy whatever they want but in this instance, I implore people to avoid the UWP till at least all the OP's points are addressed. I want G-Sync and I want to run MSI AB and see what is happening on the screen and not on my G19. I record games and show performance but no way of doing that with UWP.

Peeps, please keep away til they sort out these basic things.

neoglow · 1 Apr 2016 at 08:13

The idea of M$ and PC gaming just makes me want to vomit, I hope it flops and suffers the same fate as GFWL. They just need to step away from PC gaming and carry on with the Xbox somewhere else, they're like the smelly kid at a party, no one wants to play with them.

The 'M$ will address this in May' parts made me laugh too, May? May 2036? May...never. May-be we won't bother. Pfft.

mid_gen · 1 Apr 2016 at 08:39

The store exists because consumers like curated app stores and business like having a digital storefront to take a slice from. No reason why UWP games can't work just as well as win32, but it does seem to be a case of them pushing a technology before it's ready.

All the hate for MS, pretty funny....I guess these are people that don't remember what the PC was like as a gaming platform before Microsoft poured money into establishing it as one.

TonyTurbo78 · 1 Apr 2016 at 08:47

I just want Forza

bledd · 1 Apr 2016 at 08:55

Steam or nothing.

regulus · 1 Apr 2016 at 08:57

Gregster said:
I don't normally do politics with games and happy for people to buy whatever they want but in this instance, I implore people to avoid the UWP till at least all the OP's points are addressed. I want G-Sync and I want to run MSI AB and see what is happening on the screen and not on my G19. I record games and show performance but no way of doing that with UWP.

Peeps, please keep away til they sort out these basic things.

I want to buy GOW Remastered but I'm forced to stay away due to not even being able to buy the game! The price seems to be grayed out and I've tried every suggestion I could find to get it to work. As far as I'm concerned the Store just isn't working for me and even if I get it to work after busting my hump for an hour, there's no guarantees it'll do so tomorrow.

I'll give it another 6 months for them to get it to acceptable commercial standards before trying again.

pestt · 1 Apr 2016 at 09:10

Gregster said:
I don't normally do politics with games and happy for people to buy whatever they want but in this instance, I implore people to avoid the UWP till at least all the OP's points are addressed. I want G-Sync and I want to run MSI AB and see what is happening on the screen and not on my G19. I record games and show performance but no way of doing that with UWP.

Peeps, please keep away til they sort out these basic things.

Pretty much this. Most of the points in the OP will be addressed, I hope, but not being able to run Nexus, Afterburner and even silly stuff like Raptr would not amuse me.
Ultimately, will they bring the console games up to PC capability or do we end up with dumbed down and restricted games.

Haggisman · 1 Apr 2016 at 09:14

Pretty simple imo, after the debacle that was GFWL, if the only way to buy a game is through the Win store, I won't buy it

Like 99% of DRM (which is basically what it is), it only really hurts the legitimate paying customers, whilst being a temporary inconvenience for the pirates.

james.miller · 1 Apr 2016 at 09:26

neoglow said:
The idea of M$ ..

Sorry, nodded off after 'M$'.

Anyway, will avoid UWP until these issues are solved and it's actually worthwhile buying the games on the platform.

ps3ud0 · 1 Apr 2016 at 11:54

mid_gen said:
The store exists because consumers like curated app stores and business like having a digital storefront to take a slice from. No reason why UWP games can't work just as well as win32, but it does seem to be a case of them pushing a technology before it's ready.

All the hate for MS, pretty funny....I guess these are people that don't remember what the PC was like as a gaming platform before Microsoft poured money into establishing it as one.

The point of this thread isnt anything to do with MS having a Win10 store, just like any other publishers thats more than fine. Its wrapping up win32 programs into UWAs and that implication thats caused a lot of this, as you call it, 'hate'.

regulus said:
I want to buy GOW Remastered but I'm forced to stay away due to not even being able to buy the game! The price seems to be grayed out and I've tried every suggestion I could find to get it to work. As far as I'm concerned the Store just isn't working for me and even if I get it to work after busting my hump for an hour, there's no guarantees it'll do so tomorrow.

I'll give it another 6 months for them to get it to acceptable commercial standards before trying again.

The win10 store is a component of win10 and it seems if thats not completely up-to-date then the store just wont work for you. Its a pain I guess while it has so many critical updates but I guess that will become less of an issue once matured.

ps3ud0 :cool:

ps3ud0 · 8 Apr 2016 at 14:54

Sorry forgot to reference this in my OP:

http://www.pcgamer.com/why-pc-games-should-never-become-universal-apps/

It gives a good overview like my attempt, just goes into more depth

ps3ud0 :cool:

Wulfster · 8 Apr 2016 at 14:58

Mynight said:
Problem is they may play hard ball and require exclusivity for their PC store if the publisher wants to release on Xbox. No publisher would turn down the ability to release on Xbox.

This is an astute observation and very worrying. Pay for our crap console ports or don't play, wonder if this is the part of the catch with "free Windows 10" for all. :confused:

Wulf

mid_gen · 8 Apr 2016 at 15:08

ps3ud0 said:
The point of this thread isnt anything to do with MS having a Win10 store, just like any other publishers thats more than fine. Its wrapping up win32 programs into UWAs and that implication thats caused a lot of this, as you call it, 'hate'.

I was referring to this sort of stuff :

The idea of M$ and PC gaming just makes me want to vomit, I hope it flops and suffers the same fate as GFWL. They just need to step away from PC gaming and carry on with the Xbox somewhere else, they're like the smelly kid at a party, no one wants to play with them.

Microsoft do a *lot* for PC gaming, although a lot of that may be stuff that consumers don't know or care about. GFWL was crap but it co-incided with the worst days of Ballmer and they do seem to have got their act together in recent years. Microsoft can do gaming platforms, they've proven it with Xbox.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with UWP for games, it makes a lot of sense. Early days and there's stuff to work on sure. The recently announced Xbox dev program will be a great driver for more indie development coming to both XB and PC.

Then again, I'm not a fan of Steam at all, I think they have an unhealthy stranglehold on the PC market and don't do enough to warrant the 30% slice of the PC industry they take at the moment.