Universal Windows Platform and its possible impacts to PC gaming

mid_gen said:
There's nothing intrinsically wrong with UWP for games, it makes a lot of sense.
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I think the problem a lot of people have with it is the clout the Xbox gives them. They can basically strongarm publishers into both giving the Windows Store exclusivity, and adhering to whatever conditions MS put in place, whether that's DRM, pricing, a lockdown on 3rd party mods, etc.

Don't want to go for that? Fine - no release on Xbox. No dev/publisher in their right mind is going to kiss goodbye to a huge chunk of their market over that.

While Steam has it's issues, there's nothing forcing publishers to release on Steam (other than the popularity of the platform).
 
Haggisman said:
I think the problem a lot of people have with it is the clout the Xbox gives them. They can basically strongarm publishers into both giving the Windows Store exclusivity, and adhering to whatever conditions MS put in place, whether that's DRM, pricing, a lockdown on 3rd party mods, etc.

Don't want to go for that? Fine - no release on Xbox. No dev/publisher in their right mind is going to kiss goodbye to a huge chunk of their market over that.

While Steam has it's issues, there's nothing forcing publishers to release on Steam (other than the popularity of the platform).
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Not 'forced' technically, but in reality Steam's dominance means that unless you're one of the big players with a massive marketing budget, not giving a 30% cut to Valve is commercial suicide on PC. But anyway, this isn't about Steam.

Microsoft are a pretty different company these days. They're moving towards more openness and less platform lock-in, a Linux subsystem for Windows was released this week! Hell hath frozen over.

I'm more inclined to look at the potential benefits to developers of having a stronger, unified platform to develop games for both PC and Xbox going forwards. UWA aren't restricted to the Windows Store either, IIUC there's nothing stopping a UWA being distributed through Steam at the moment?
 
mid_gen said:
Microsoft do a *lot* for PC gaming, although a lot of that may be stuff that consumers don't know or care about. GFWL was crap but it co-incided with the worst days of Ballmer and they do seem to have got their act together in recent years. Microsoft can do gaming platforms, they've proven it with Xbox.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with UWP for games, it makes a lot of sense. Early days and there's stuff to work on sure. The recently announced Xbox dev program will be a great driver for more indie development coming to both XB and PC.
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I dont think they do a *lot* anymore for PC gaming, their IDE is brilliant but I doubt you could argue its primarily there for PC gaming opposed to other software development. DX12 seemed to be a direct response to the threat of AMD/DICE bringing out Mantle and then we have UWP which is moving the ideology of mobile app development onto Windows and then throwing PC games at it expecting its restrictions to be ok for PC gamers.

All I see them do is use gaming to get a foothold elsewhere, Xbox was initially created to get Windows into the living room and putting games on UWP only seems to be them trying to entice developers and consumers to tolerate the Win10 store in the aim to make their phones relevant.

They did a lot back in the days when they didnt kill nearly every PC game development studio they owned...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
Haggisman said:
I think the problem a lot of people have with it is the clout the Xbox gives them. They can basically strongarm publishers into both giving the Windows Store exclusivity, and adhering to whatever conditions MS put in place, whether that's DRM, pricing, a lockdown on 3rd party mods, etc.

Don't want to go for that? Fine - no release on Xbox. No dev/publisher in their right mind is going to kiss goodbye to a huge chunk of their market over that.

While Steam has it's issues, there's nothing forcing publishers to release on Steam (other than the popularity of the platform).
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On the other hand, neither would MS wants to see too many PS4/PC only exclusives hitting the shelves because of this insistance. The PS4 is already the stronger console, no reason to give it even more headroom.

I can't see them doing this anyway - it would present them and the publisher in the kind of light that is bad for future sales.
 
Wulfster said:
This is an astute observation and very worrying. Pay for our crap console ports or don't play, wonder if this is the part of the catch with "free Windows 10" for all.:confused:

Wulf
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Haggisman said:
I think the problem a lot of people have with it is the clout the Xbox gives them. They can basically strongarm publishers into both giving the Windows Store exclusivity, and adhering to whatever conditions MS put in place, whether that's DRM, pricing, a lockdown on 3rd party mods, etc.

Don't want to go for that? Fine - no release on Xbox. No dev/publisher in their right mind is going to kiss goodbye to a huge chunk of their market over that.
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I dont think any publisher really sees PC gaming as a bonus pot of money or an afterthought anymore and while MS/Sony happily allow their 'console exclusives' onto PC then its a good thing for the platform.

I could understand the sentiment if MS were dominating the console market and so leveraging those exclusives and producing terms that required UWP only versions of their games but it doesnt appear to be in a position to and with how UWP games have actually turned out (especially everything thats happening with QB) I doubt any publisher would accept those terms.

As mid_gen alluded to, you are more likely to find publishers introducing their own digital platforms like Origin and uPlay than doing the above.

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
So its May, and the first update has dropped:
Later today, Windows 10 will be updated with two key new features:
  • Support for AMD’s FreesyncTM and NVIDIA’s G-SYNC™ in Universal Windows Platform games and apps
  • Unlocked frame rate for Universal Windows Platform (UWP) games and apps
Once applications take advantage of these new features, you will be able to play your UWP games with unlocked frame rates. We expect Gears of War: UE and Forza Motorsport 6: Apex to lead the way by adding this support in the very near future.
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https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/di...cked-frame-rate-and-more-now-enabled-for-uwp/

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
AMAZING NEWS

Freesync and unlocked frame rate, amazing. Maybe Microsoft and UWP are keen to make a proper go of things. This is good news indeed, what with this and free Forza the other day, I'm kinda impressed.

Going to add this quote also...

Taking out our crystal ball

Looking further into the future, you can expect to see some exciting developments on multiple GPUs in DirectX 12 in the near future, and a truly impressive array of DirectX 12 titles later this summer and fall.

In the meantime, stay tuned to our blog and follow us on Twitter @DirectX12 for a post coming soon about DirectX performance!
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I can't actually install any of these games due to being on Win 10 build 10240 (deferred) but at least the store page tells me I need to upgrade now :p
 
Someone somewhere @ Redmond is starting to realise as they own the OS it might be a qood idea to try & claw back some market share from Steam :rolleyes:

I think it will be cheaper though for MS to just buy Valve outright ;) Gabe will not sell but its not just down to him he has partners/investors who might sell if the price is right.
 
AWPC said:
Someone somewhere @ Redmond is starting to realise as they own the OS it might be a qood idea to try & claw back some market share from Steam :rolleyes:

I think it will be cheaper though for MS to just buy Valve outright ;) Gabe will not sell but its not just down to him he has partners/investors who might sell if the price is right.
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Steam is terrible as it is, this would make it 10x worse. They made a good OS and used to make good consoles, they are literally aids in the current day.
 
So basically mod support is the only issue that is really threatened by this. That's not ideal, but something akin to the workshop that steam have, which would allow some control over mods, could be a way for them to support mods in a way MS are comfortable with. They seem to be handling this fairly well so far, which has me surprised, but pleased.
 
Devrij said:
So basically mod support is the only issue that is really threatened by this. That's not ideal, but something akin to the workshop that steam have, which would allow some control over mods, could be a way for them to support mods in a way MS are comfortable with. They seem to be handling this fairly well so far, which has me surprised, but pleased.
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Id say its more like how Bethesda will deal with Fallout 4 mods myself.

The only other issue is UWP specific features like impulse triggers which MS wont allow outside of games that feature on the store. Hopefully they relax that stance and allow non-Win10 store games to access Windows.Gaming.Input rather than just Xinput/Dinput.

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
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Just reading about how they changed full screen exclusive mode so people can alt tab. Sigh alt tabbing always made games feel less smooth as soon as i done it, And i dont see how they fixed that they simply are forcing people into playing in some kind of windowed mode now are they?

Sounds like complete crap why do people have to tab can they not sit and game without distractions?
 
Rofflay said:
Just reading about how they changed full screen exclusive mode so people can alt tab. Sigh alt tabbing always made games feel less smooth as soon as i done it, And i dont see how they fixed that they simply are forcing people into playing in some kind of windowed mode now are they?

Sounds like complete crap why do people have to tab can they not sit and game without distractions?
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Roflma
 
If these restrictions prevented hackers - great.

I am all for this -more games and more competition; as long as MS take and act on feedback.
 
ps3ud0 said:
Id say its more like how Bethesda will deal with Fallout 4 mods myself.
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Not really, as Bethesda aren't stopping people from hosting and downloading mods from other sources. I could still go and download a nude mod for Fallout 4 from the Nexus if all other sources of porn in the world suddenly ceased to exist for example. Bethesda have just created an official source for vetted mods, for those who don't wish to get into the wild west side of things and potentially break their game in a thousand different ways.

Which is fine, good even, but the spirit of modding has always been people adding what they want to a game, not what's mandated or allowed by Bethesda or Microsoft. A future for modding where Microsoft have final say over everything might as well be no future at all.
 
People seem to be getting confused between UWP and Windows Store. The UWP and Windows Store are two different things.

UWP is an API which can be used by any game or application to allow developers to easily use the same code for multiple windows platforms (Desktop, Mobile and XBox). A developer using UWP doesn't have to distribute their game via Windows Store. UWP applications can be 'side-loaded' in Windows 10, which means they can be downloaded and installed completely separately from the store. In fact, there is no technical reason why UWP-based games can't be sold on Steam or GOG.

UWP is a new emerging API which is still (relatively) young. Therefore, Microsoft are still developing it's functionality and adding bits to it, as has been demonstrated by the recent VSync patch.

The main reason UWP exists is to make cross-platform development easier and make sure that apps don't screw up the rest of your PC by sandboxing them. This is generally a good thing, but it does prevent unofficial altering of the apps files which the old school method of modding requires. This doesn't, however, prevent games/apps from exposing files outside of this sandbox if the developer allows it. There is nothing preventing them from placing things like .ini files into 'My Documents' for example for modification. And, to be honest, if a developer not using UWP wanted to prevent the modding of their game then it's possible for them to do it at the moment.

This reddit post is a great discussion on the subject - https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/48y4p3/phil_spencer_on_twitter_uwp_is_a_fully_open/
 
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