Unmarried couples caught in Malaysia hotel raids

Amp34 said:
I know, however you follow a faith then you should follow it not just pick and choose. You do however have a choice, if you are muslim then you shouldn't have sex before marriage, which if you are breaking you are not a proper muslin anyway.
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Yea but most people do not chose a faith. They end up having it chosen for them and by the time they really realise, its too late anyway.

I am a Christian for example yet I dont remember the point I ever chose that and if we had 'Christian laws' I'd probably fall foul of them...
 
vonhelmet said:
And yet when people come here we expect them to abide by our laws, traditions and customs...

You bunch of hypocrites.
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This law didn't apply to foreigners or immigrants or non Muslims.


So no, it's not hypocrisy.

Good work on reading the article though :)
 
[TW]Fox;15656622 said:
I know its the culture, etc etc, but how does any of this make sense to anybody rational?
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You are looking at things from your own perspective and how you have been bought up and what you think is right. In your mind it makes no sense and that is fair enough but people from those countries have been bought up with different beliefs so they can accept that and adapt accordingly. Don't knock something you don't understand is what I'd say. Obviously most Western people don't understand the culture and mentality of people from those parts of the world.

Being Indian myself I know loads of people who have had arranged marriages and I'd say like 95% of them are all still happily married and care a great deal about each other. If they can accept that and are happy enough to go along with that then why would anyone else have a problem with it?
 
JAzz said:
You are looking at things from your own perspective and how you have been bought up and what you think is right. In your mind it makes no sense and that is fair enough but people from those countries have been bought up with different beliefs so they can accept that and adapt accordingly. Don't knock something you don't understand is what I'd say. Obviously most Western people don't understand the culture and mentality of people from those parts of the world.
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Sounds like they don't like it either - if what you say is true why are they being found breaking these hallowed rules in hotel rooms?

Because they are human, like us, and they too feel love, like us.
 
Amp34 said:
They do, you can either be a muslim and not have sex before marriage or you can decide not to be a muslim and have as much sex before marriage as you want...:confused:
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That is not entirely accurate. If you are an ethnic Malay you are generally considered a muslim at birth and that is what is registered on your ID card. To stop being a muslim you need to apply to a Sharia court. Unsuprisingly these applications are rarely granted.
 
Tefal said:
The other 5%...
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Well you can't keep everyone happy :p

[TW]Fox;15659315 said:
Sounds like they don't like it either - if what you say is true why are they being found breaking these hallowed rules in hotel rooms?

Because they are human, like us, and they too feel love, like us.
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I wasn't actually referring to this incident I was talking more generally about relationships in those countries.
 
JAzz said:
I wasn't actually referring to this incident I was talking more generally about relationships in those countries.
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I'm talking about this incident. It seems that here we have consensual couples who wish to be together, in private, yet because they were born into a religion, they are jailed for this.

Even more bizarrely people seem to defend this as somehow right :confused:
 
Fair enough I misunderstood your point. You are right I don't think the police & courts should be getting involved in things like this, if their parents had broken in or something maybe I'd understand but it is a bit much.

Apart from the people running those countries and the hardliners I think most won't defend what they are doing. Personally don't agree with the way most Muslim countries are run (especially their treatment of women) but I also appreciate that it is their country and they can run it how they see fit. Until you truly understand how those people think I don't think you can take it upon yourself to make decisions for them. I'm going off topic here but look at Iraq, democracy was suppose to set them free but has made the place much worse.
 
iamTakeo said:
"Sharia laws in Malaysia apply only to Malay Muslims"
Pretend your not muslim => get away scott free?

or am I being a bit nieve?
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they will likely be able to find out if you're a Muslim - at least is you're from there

the only way out would be to renounce your faith - then you'd be guilty of apostasy which carries the death penalty under Islamic law...
 
RDM said:
That is not entirely accurate. If you are an ethnic Malay you are generally considered a muslim at birth and that is what is registered on your ID card. To stop being a muslim you need to apply to a Sharia court. Unsuprisingly these applications are rarely granted.
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I'm not sure they have ever been granted by a proper Sharia court - to stop being a muslim is a serious crime under sharia law
 
dowie said:
I'm not sure they have ever been granted by a proper Sharia court - to stop being a muslim is a serious crime under sharia law
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In Malaysia the ones that are normally granted are for people that have previously converted to Islam, say for marriage reasons and then get divorced or widowed. Thankfully the penalty for apostacy in Malaysia isn't as strict as some Islamic nations (only a few years in prison rather than the death penalty).
 
[TW]Fox;15656622 said:
How can you honestly be expected to decide if you wish to marry somebody without ever being alone with them!? Surely love is a natural thing and they are going against that? I just do not understand why people with these sort of ideals are given any sort of credibility.

It's just bonkers :confused:
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You are allowed to meet the girl, you are allowed to see her face and hands, you are allowed to talk to the girl and ask any relevent questions. However this must all be done with the intention of marriage and presence of a wali/ mahram (or guardian) to prevent anything unlwaful happening between them.
 
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Malaysia is reknown for such thing - to me, it's unsurprising.
What I do not understand is how everyone is up in arms about this over here in the UK when this is their Law of the Land which ONLY applies to Malaysian Muslims?

I think it's just poor understanding of a simple article.
Just because Islamic laws can be rather narrow, it doesn't make it moronic entirely. Open your eyes and look around you, stop jumping on the bandwagon of 'religion/Islam is stupid'.

You want stupid law?
At least talk about the Human rights of Muslims over there, once they're a born Muslim, they can never leave the fate or they'll be punished by the land of the law. Now that's something more worth while to debate.

Edit: By the way, as bad as the law sounds for Muslim over there, the benefits they get over there compared to the other races, who are normally treated as second class citizens, far outweighs such 'silly' law.
 
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I was going to post in opposition to the whole thing. But then I got thinking, and there are examples of similar oppressive laws in the UK.

For example, low grade drug 'abuse'. In the UK you can be arrested for taking drugs in your own home. Surely the negative social affects of that (other than those purely associated with the illegality of doing it) aren't any worse than having supposedly immoral sex with people your not married too.

Heh, maybe we're not that much better off, just oppressed in different ways, dictated by society.


and yes, maybe i'm just full of it
 
Nodiggidy123 said:
so let me get this right.

western countries on the whole will go out of their way to accommodate the different beliefs and cultures of others but not vice versa?

if thats the case then we shouldnt allow muslim women to wear veils and bring back school nativity amongst others.
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Malaysia is extremely diverse when it comes to Religion, having significant numbers of Buddhists, Hindu's and Christians and is generaly tolerant towards them.

These laws are only enforced for Malay Muslims and while I may not agree with them, I don't have to, I am not a Muslim.
 
I think the biggest issue is the country's law being religious law.

If England was under religious rule of say Christianity, we'd be seeing similar things going on.

Religious rule of a countries is wrong in my opinion, religion should be a personal thing that you have a choice to follow.

Also, [TW]Fox, you aren't a Christian as you have already told us you didn't make the choice to be a Christian, therefore you aren't one.

They day you consciously choose to be "Christian" will be the day you are.
 
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