Maybe he should stick to his mechanicing rather than trying to be an expert in tyres and materials engineering
**Unofficial Tyre Thread**
- Thread starter rossk26
- Start date
Maybe he should stick to his mechanicing rather than trying to be an expert in tyres and materials engineering
maybe.
he was saying, that sailun/landsul, don't show the same cracking
I'm not sure if any of the premium tyres are themselves made in China, or how much of the worlds rubber supplies are cornered by the chinese,
but, if tyres are like other products, ev cars, their batteries, mobile phones, and their quality, are anything to go by, then maybe it's worth a shot.
(we don't have too many ditches in the fens).
Tyre technology doesn't seem to have improved much over the last 20 years afaik, so that seems plenty of time for 3rd parties to catch up.
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
Are you joking?
I decided not to touch that bit...
I'd be interested to see a comparison of performance tyres, average tyres and cheap tyres of 20 years ago, vs performance tyres, average tyres and cheap tyres of the present day.
I wonder if some of todays ditchfinders are better than 20 year old performance tyres...
I might actually approach some review sites with the idea because as far as I can tell it hasn't been done before.
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no can you say that you have attributed a car handling/braking improvement over 20 years from tyres ?
I can't see an autobuild summer tyres test from 20 years ago unfortunately, or something objective.
edit: maybe tyres improved in longevity, but not performance ???
Unfortunately you can still buy tyres designed almost 20 years ago.
The Toyo Proxes T1R is one example. 17 years ago it was considered to be an excellent tyre, it won best in its class.
Now, they are comparable to what we would refer to as a "ditchfinder", they are absolutely lethal in the wet, and I can only describe them as bang average in the dry. But it isn't difficult for a tyre to perform well on a warm dry road.
It is rumoured that they changed the rubber compound somewhere along the way though, so they might be worse now than they were then...
You could still buy Pirelli P6000's up until recently as well... My 23 year old spare tyre is a P6000.
Er. You smoking something ?
In fairness I think it is hard to quantify the improvement unless someone does a direct comparison.
Which would be very interesting to see.
I'd say that the difference in tyre tech between 1980 and 2000 was far greater than the difference in tyre tech between 2000 and 2020.
Eagle F1s were the 2000 tyre. What are we in now ? Just the AS2 were a huge step up from the F1s according to many reviews. We have AS3 as supersports now.
Then we have tyres like the PS4S which make a rwd car feel 4wd in pouring rain
Then we have tyres like the PS4S which make a rwd car feel 4wd in pouring rain
I think it would be a great idea for one of the review sites to test this. There must be loads of outdated tyres sitting in warehouses out there. I bet they could easily get hold of a set of original Eagle F1's and compare them against the F1 A5.
Fresh tyres vs old is the issue then. Plasticisers in the rubber evaporate and change the compound.
The F1 to AS2 was a definate step change in tyre performance. Cold. Wet and track were better as the F1 had a habit of overheating and beading. So even in 5 yrs there are improvements. To say no improvement in 20 yrs is silly. Especially if you have been buying premium tyres in that time period.
MPSS to MPS4s was a similar step especially in wet.
If someone has and still noticed no difference then I think there is a factor beyond the tyre that would explain such statements of no change in 20 yrs.
Reminds me to order some new rears for mine. Nothing to consider but another pair of MP4S
The F1 to AS2 was a definate step change in tyre performance. Cold. Wet and track were better as the F1 had a habit of overheating and beading. So even in 5 yrs there are improvements. To say no improvement in 20 yrs is silly. Especially if you have been buying premium tyres in that time period.
MPSS to MPS4s was a similar step especially in wet.
If someone has and still noticed no difference then I think there is a factor beyond the tyre that would explain such statements of no change in 20 yrs.
Reminds me to order some new rears for mine. Nothing to consider but another pair of MP4S
I think tyres are generally OK if they have been stored in a cool dry and dark environment, especially if unloaded/unmounted.
They would have to be choosy, but I think it could work.
I'm guessing that he's an average driver who doesn't push the limits and hasn't really been in situations where braking distance has prevented a crash, so its hard for him to say one way or the other.
I might be totally wrong in saying that and I hope he'll correct me if thats the case!
Whereas others of us find the limits of any tyres we happen to have, wet and dry, while driving spiritedly.
I found the limitations of a set of ContiPremiumContacts one time when I understeered into a tree...
Yes thats the point, the purpose of the exercise would be to demonstrate how far things have progressed in the past couple of decades. Comparing 20 year old tech with new tech back to back on the same car doing the same tests.
I suppose a better idea would be to get an example of the 20 year old car they used for the old testing, renew every suspension component to ensure it is a fair test, then fit new tyres to that and re-run the tests, and compare the result to the archived data.
You cannot compare using different vehicles and tyre sizes. Tyres have improved, by how much I am not sure, but seeing vehicle tests where the tyre is a major contributor (eg. ESC tests) has made me realise just how important it is to use premium tyres. If you drive sensibly and well below vehicle capabilities you might never use them, however when you have to do an emergency manoeuvre, that’s when you’ll realise how important tyre performance is.
Cheap tyres have their uses; a friend of mine uses them exclusively on drift days. They left them on his friend’s M4 driving in the motorway, around 70mph, when suddenly there was a strip of water and the car just slipped of the road. They were lucky they somehow went over the ditch and into the field.
Cheap tyres have their uses; a friend of mine uses them exclusively on drift days. They left them on his friend’s M4 driving in the motorway, around 70mph, when suddenly there was a strip of water and the car just slipped of the road. They were lucky they somehow went over the ditch and into the field.
The 2020 wet braking test was at 80kph, however in 2017 it was100 kph
lthough the numbers above for 2020 don't seem to tally with the report which have 28.7m for Michelins. So I dont think the left chart is showing meters.
https://whattyre.com/news/auto-bild-2020-summer-tyre-tests-the-finalists/
So main thing is different speeds and looks like different units of measurement .plus factor of diff car, tyre size and possibly circuit /amount of water.
lthough the numbers above for 2020 don't seem to tally with the report which have 28.7m for Michelins. So I dont think the left chart is showing meters.
https://whattyre.com/news/auto-bild-2020-summer-tyre-tests-the-finalists/
So main thing is different speeds and looks like different units of measurement .plus factor of diff car, tyre size and possibly circuit /amount of water.
yes that's the chart, I used, showing F1 A5 at 48 *metres*.
If the earlier chart was 100kph, that makes the newer 80kph values look even worse.
Maybe the golden reference site, we throw around, is not so golden .... more research required, you'd expect the would be consistant.
edit : I could believe lower profile tyres/45 are less surface compliant/retarding than higher profile/50 .. who knew they were sacrificing safety with big rims.
If the earlier chart was 100kph, that makes the newer 80kph values look even worse.
Maybe the golden reference site, we throw around, is not so golden .... more research required, you'd expect the would be consistant.
edit : I could believe lower profile tyres/45 are less surface compliant/retarding than higher profile/50 .. who knew they were sacrificing safety with big rims.