UNPOPULAR OPINION: German Marques are no longer prestige..

I suppose it depends exactly what you mean by prestige. They still generally produce the best cars, although the cheaper models are widely available now so the badge itself doesn't do much.

Go and sit in the new 7 Series and then compare it to a new Qashqai/Sportage or something. There's no comparison really, it wipes the floor with them - as you'd expect, given the cost. Prestige it very much is.
 
adam cool dude said:
The cars are still prestige for now. The brands are just a lot more diluted now with a lot more poverty spec trash.



BMW circa early 00's. Look at them now :cry: and BMW is by far my favourite German brand.
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Im old enough to remember when BMW & Merc were pov spec as standard. They were just insanely well built. My old mans E28 5 series didnt come with a radio if memory serves me well. The 190E we had, wasnt exactly loaded with kit. That was the preserve of the Jap, lots of fancy stuff like a cassette player and a digital clock.
 
Tinders said:
Im old enough to remember when BMW & Merc were pov spec as standard. They were just insanely well built. My old mans E28 5 series didnt come with a radio if memory serves me well. The 190E we had, wasnt exactly loaded with kit. That was the preserve of the Jap, lots of fancy stuff like a cassette player and a digital clock.
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Yea back in the 80, 90s and maybe beginning of the 2000s Mercs were tanks. The 190E era stuff is still outlasting many of the modern cars. The push for cost cutting and emissions stats has seen things become flimsy, including engine internals. They just bolt a computer in to the dash and call it premium, but the only premium part is the price.

It's a shame the stupid scrappage schemes saw a lot of "mundane" but actually quite good cars with a lot of life still in them get binned. Even many of the eco cars from back then are just more solidly built.
 
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The only thing premium about most of them now are their prices, ego of their drivers and the typically nice interiors.
BTW, we do own a BMW.

I think that the general understanding is that the byword for genuine reliability is Japanese.

I watched a video recently based upon data for UK warranty claims, 5 of the “most reliable” (ie based upon their scoring system) were Japanese.
VAG took an absolute beating with pretty all of their brands in the bottom 1/3rd of the table.

So much for “if only everything in life was as reliable as a Golf”.

Agreed with the comments that it does appear to have been caused by what looks like accounting led management, as against engineering.
 
Mr_Sukebe said:
The only thing premium about most of them now are their prices, ego of their drivers and the typically nice interiors.
BTW, we do own a BMW.

I think that the general understanding is that the byword for genuine reliability is Japanese.

I watched a video recently based upon data for UK warranty claims, 5 of the “most reliable” (ie based upon their scoring system) were Japanese.
VAG took an absolute beating with pretty all of their brands in the bottom 1/3rd of the table.

So much for “if only everything in life was as reliable as a Golf”.

Agreed with the comments that it does appear to have been caused by what looks like accounting led management, as against engineering.
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TBH it's been that way for a long time. The bottom usually also includes every Range/Land Rover model too
 
My mate/neighbour is currently half looking for a job and is historically a sales manager in the car trade. He's employed but bored.

He gets a call from an Employment Agency who offers him a role at Mini. During the inevitable room temperature IQ level questioning the Agency rep says to him "Why would you aspire to work for a prestige brand like Mini?"

My mate says to him, "Why do you think Mini is a prestige brand"? The Agency rep couldn't answer that, and proceeded to tell him he wasn't likely to get an interview due to his attitude.

He wasn't too bothered. He sells vehicles in the 100K-200K range currently! Mini ain't in that bracket.
 
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Mercedes started going downhill after the W210 (E class).
These things were pure junk, and any time me or any of the other salesmen would hand one over to the customer we'd have bets on how long it'd be before it was back in the workshop with the dash lit up like a christmas tree.
The current A class at the time was almost as terrible.
Fast forward to modern times and them lobbing Renault engines into the lower range tier of their cars, coupled with all kinds of faults we used to find on PDI and the amount of remedial work that needed doing, doesn't really inspire confidence in the brand.
I'd love to know how many customers bought an A, B, C class etc without knowing what was under the bonnet.
 
Tinders said:
Im old enough to remember when BMW & Merc were pov spec as standard. They were just insanely well built. My old mans E28 5 series didnt come with a radio if memory serves me well. The 190E we had, wasnt exactly loaded with kit. That was the preserve of the Jap, lots of fancy stuff like a cassette player and a digital clock.
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My dad traded in a Merc for a brand new Hyundai Pony X2 GSI saloon. It was on a H reg and it had everything. Electric front and rear windows, electric sunroof, cd changer, chrome wing mirror and chrome alloy wheels. I loved it then my parents got divorced and he traded it in for a Ford Orion Ghia which had absolutely nothing. :(

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JonRGV250 said:
Mercedes started going downhill after the W210 (E class).
These things were pure junk, and any time me or any of the other salesmen would hand one over to the customer we'd have bets on how long it'd be before it was back in the workshop with the dash lit up like a christmas tree.
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Not a W210 but I had two W213s. The E43 I had for 3 years, no lights on the dash ever, only ever had a new battery on warranty. The E63S I had for 4 years, no lights on the dash ever, only had a drivers window switch pack on warranty as a spring went on one of them. What I would say, they both had creaky interiors which I found pretty annoying considering both weren’t cheap cars.
 
My last two 5 Series were 100% reliable - 2014 to 2023 and not a single thing went wrong with either of them. Most reliable cars I've ever owned (Though my first newer and lower mileage cars, to be fair). We've also had the Mini since 2018 and although the one before that was a bit annoying this one has again been perfectly reliable.

I've wasted thousands of pounds on warranties I've never ended up using.

I don't buy any of these cars because they are apparently 'prestige' - I buy them because I like the product and I like what they do and how they do it.
 
The Germans still seem to be able make nice interiors, certainly the bits you interact with have the feeling of quality. Having looked at a lot of new cars, BMW and Merc do seem to have the better UI's. Most cars have touchscreens but some look a bit meh.

The Germans also seem to do the chintzy stuff better, ie lighting etc. But the real reliabity is definitelynot good. for eg, both BMW with the N47 and mercedes with the OM651, they suffer with timing chain issues, and thats down to the utter dog poo plastics in the engine, plastics ffs.
 
I think another part of the problem is that years ago, your status could be defined by what you arrived in at the office car park. The boss would roll up in the Jag / Rover and all the peasants would appear in escorts and marinas etc. Now, the person who fills the tampon machine is
just as likely to turn up in a leased AMG Merc. I would add that "super" cars have lost their super appeal, too. I used to hang a few on my bedroom wall because the chances of seeing one in real life was slim to none; now I can see a dozen a week and subsequently find it far more
exciting to see a marina or escort.
 
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