UNPOPULAR OPINION: German Marques are no longer prestige..

Best car I owned was my Honda Civic 2200CDTI. Snowy icy roads around the lake district it would knock spots of all the top German marques. The best looking BMW in my opinion was the aluminium bodied 3 litre from the 1970's. Not terribly fuel efficient though.
 
Tinders said:
The Germans still seem to be able make nice interiors, certainly the bits you interact with have the feeling of quality. Having looked at a lot of new cars, BMW and Merc do seem to have the better UI's. Most cars have touchscreens but some look a bit meh.

The Germans also seem to do the chintzy stuff better, ie lighting etc. But the real reliabity is definitelynot good. for eg, both BMW with the N47 and mercedes with the OM651, they suffer with timing chain issues, and thats down to the utter dog poo plastics in the engine, plastics ffs.
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Audi made the exact same mistake in the 00s with timing chains and crappy plastic runners. They wear down and the engine timing screws up. Why can't the Germans get this right when almost ever other engine manufacturer can.
Plastics to keep metal in place never ends well.
 
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They are still prestige brands as the ability to buy or how one buys is irrelevant really.

However, they are certainly a product of the masses these days and in that have lost the cachet perhaps.

Having said that the fact more people can access nice/prestige stuff if a good thing I guess
 
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There's a wild variation on the quality / "prestige" of German cars and thus some are absolutely ridiculous (A class Merc with Renault engines) some are still class benchmarks - BMW 3 and 5 series. At the same time, the Asians have come a very long way, it's not a simple choice at all between a Golf and a i30 these days!
There's stereotypes everywhere, Toyota is wildly regarded as the epitome of reliability yet their Toyota Avensis with the infamous N47 from which they removed things like... an oil level sensor left many people in need of a replacement engine and came with all the n47 pain that BMW had.
 
The German brands are much better quality and nicer places to sit and drive nicer than most others and arguably look nicer, with them only becoming marginally affordable via PCP and lease plans however it has made them even more accessible than likely at any other point.

The company car / capital gains tax is what has really driven the increase, previously businesses were buying up bucket loads of mondeos and vectras, they were built for a price point, hence the Mondeo man acronym, then due to the tax people didn't want company cars and if they did they wanted decent ones to justify the cost.

Those that opt out of having a company car, due to finance as mentioned, those that would have been given a Mondeo can now choose what car they want, it is little wonder they choose one of the German brands, the German brands do come out on top of almost all head to head tests.

That said German reliability is a thing of distant memory I don't believe they are any more reliable than most others brands

there is the badge snobbery that if you own one your somewhat superior or less poor, you wouldn't get a deano driving round in a Mondeo or insignia etc.

Having driven new Korean varieties when my car has gone in for work on many occasions this past year I can confidently say that the German or other car Considered prestige like a lexus, Jag Alfa, are much nicer places to be.

Yes the Korean is cheaper, and most instances relatively stylish, but there is a reason they are cheaper, corners have been cut in areas, and compared to my 20 year old Audi A4 I've not been convinced it's worthwhile replacing, other than for another Audi or car of similar ilk.
 
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What about the Japanese like Lexus? They are the 4th largest in the world yet are completely unknown in Europe really.

They have tried Infiniti here and it failed miserably. Acura is big in America and the Yanks see Lexus as some mega upmarket thing too. The LS400 was a massive success over there. IIRC Lexus is the best selling luxury marque in China too. They constantly top reliability surveys where ever you look yet no one is interested in them at all in this country?

You see plenty of poor unreliable JLR products on the road compared to Lexus in this country.
 
Historically I think that's mainly because... lack of competent and 6 cylinder diesels which still are the go to baseline for the big executive saloons / limousines and SUVs in Europe, although the number has shrunk significantly over the last few years.

6 cylinder diesels are something that only Germans seem to bother with, whilst overall Toyota always focused on a very streamlined set of engines and production variations. Yes there's a modern Supra, Yaris and Corolla GR but they were so limited in volume that they hardly ever wanted to be more than marketing exercises.
 
Hagar said:
Best car I owned was my Honda Civic 2200CDTI. Snowy icy roads around the lake district it would knock spots of all the top German marques. The best looking BMW in my opinion was the aluminium bodied 3 litre from the 1970's. Not terribly fuel efficient though.
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How so was it 4x4?
 
OspreyO said:
That's suggests they are are dropping one EV platform to focus on their other EV platform. Not that they are backing out EVs as claimed.
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Yep I read another article this morning that stated they were dropping specific EQx branding to focus on their core models, but they would be branded as e.g. "S class with EQ technology"


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www.thesun.co.uk

Major car brand scrapping EV range & returning to iconic names for future models

A MAJOR car brand is set to scrap an entire range of EVs to bring back iconic names for their future models. The lineup has only been in action for five years but has already been earmarked for ret…
www.thesun.co.uk
 
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adam cool dude said:
What about the Japanese like Lexus? They are the 4th largest in the world yet are completely unknown in Europe really.

They have tried Infiniti here and it failed miserably. Acura is big in America and the Yanks see Lexus as some mega upmarket thing too. The LS400 was a massive success over there. IIRC Lexus is the best selling luxury marque in China too. They constantly top reliability surveys where ever you look yet no one is interested in them at all in this country?

You see plenty of poor unreliable JLR products on the road compared to Lexus in this country.
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Lexus problem is the power train they offer in Europe aren't as good as the German offerings, in the us and Japan they offer more powerful power trains throughout all their models.

I firmly believe lexus in Europe are happy going for traditional jaguar territory focused mainly at older gentleman, they have a couple of cool models, but the whole range is offered for a different clientele to BMW and Audi.

Jaguar tried going for the territory that the Germans have dominated but they have realised that actually it's not sustainable so have reverted back to their old model of selling fewer cars but at a higher profit
 
sx_turbo said:
Lexus problem is the power train they offer in Europe aren't as good as the German offerings, in the us and Japan they offer more powerful power trains throughout all their models.

I firmly believe lexus in Europe are happy going for traditional jaguar territory focused mainly at older gentleman, they have a couple of cool models, but the whole range is offered for a different clientele to BMW and Audi.

Jaguar tried going for the territory that the Germans have dominated but they have realised that actually it's not sustainable so have reverted back to their old model of selling fewer cars but at a higher profit
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I can understand that. I have always wanted a Lexus estate but nothing ever materialised. Their GS 450H always seemed like a good sweet spot in terms of power and fuel economy.

JLR are a broke company though. Surely Toyota have the financial clout to take on the German 3. They have managed it in the States and China.
 
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adam cool dude said:
I can understand that. I have always wanted a Lexus estate but nothing ever materialised. Their GS 450H always seemed like a good sweet spot in terms of power and fuel economy.

JLR are a broke company though. Surely Toyota have the financial clout to take on the German 3. They have managed it in the States and China.
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I'm all honesty I love a lexus, if they brought the 350hp 3.5 V6 to the is and GS range, or had a decent small capacity turbo engine, with decent gearbox not the CVT I would definitely get one.

I'd even take just the engine with he CVT as a compromise.

But instead they just shove the 2.5v6 that's been out for 20years, that's pretty gutless and not very economical. There's no decent diesel comparable diesel.

I don't think it's a case of they can't, they just have their sights set elsewhere and Toyota are happy doing the numbers their doing.

I'm almost every review of a lexus they complain about the gearbox and lack of umph, but Toyota do not listen, they do them, which is good on them I suppose

Note: I know lexus does have models with more powerful engines, but there are only a couple, and not in the traditional segment (the bmw 1/2, 3 & 5 series segments)
 
I always smile when people suggest VW is a “prestige brand”.

VW / Ford / Vauxhall / Toyota are day-to-day middle-of-the road brands.

As others have said though with all the different financing options the concept of “prestige” doesn’t really exist except for things like Rolls Royce / Bentley.

Not that that’s a bad thing- but what you like - don’t worry about what other people think of you!
 
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