Unreal Engine 5 - unbelievable.

[Proto]

Along with very distracting flickering textures and shadows.

Yes, noticed that as well.

It’s really bad at the point when I first turned left into the side road.

I’m assuming it’s the engine as well.

 

[Proto]

Where's the download to that demo?

It was cooked and packaged for Windows directly from UE on my system.

So there’s no download link as far as I know, at least not for the UE 5.4 version.

It’s also very heavy on resources while packaging, using over 60 GB of ram, so I can try to upload it somewhere if you need it. I can try to compress a zip to about 15 GB.

 

[TNA]

I was specifically on about how well optimised RED engine is nowadays vs how Unreal Engine has always not been well optimised, but that has changed massively in recent time. Since UE5.3 and up Epic built i tools for devs to use that removes shader comp stutter but we still have some minor traversal stutter, night and day difference though. This is fine since the current RED engine also has minor traversal stutter in Cyberpunk so much of a muchness.

The problem with RED is it's inability to support some of the rendering techniques used by unreal 5, distance rendering is non existant in RED which is why stuff far away when you zoom in with your Kiroshi optics looks like something out of the 1990s, it's also why lights don't render properly for distant objects and why ray tracing doesn't cover that afr ahead either.

in unreal 5 Lumen and Nanite completely solve those issues and distance rendering has no pop-in for anything when using hardware ray tracing paths. Currently all UE5 games use software Lumen or hybrid Lumen along with Nanite in the latest titles. Still, once HW Lumen is being used, we will say goodbye to texture detail loss at a distance and shadow/texture pop-in, this is something RED cannot do and will never do because the people who knew how to implement it left CDPR and in 2022 CDPR signed a 15 year deal with EPIC to only develop with UE, which is probably why some of those RED experts left too.

People are forgetting that maintaining an in-house engine costs a lot of money and time, so why do that when you can literally make an entire movie in UE5 and make it playable? The creative side of UE5 comes down to individual devs, most games typically look "unreal" because they use similar assets and camera angles and whatnot, it's the actually creative devs that use their own assets and import into UE5 that will show what it's truly capable of. Look at the upcoming games like Perfect Dark, look at current releases like St ll Wakes the Deep. These don't use bundled assets but their own textures because the dev went out on location to photograph and 3d model etc to then use in UE5.

Yup. That's why I was puzzled as to you responses last year. Glad you finally see the light

You was very puzzled as to why they abandoned RedEngine. Here is the quote for the lols. It has not aged well

I am 95% sure that their UE5 version of the sequal will be riddled with launch issues such as shader stuttering and other performance optimisations that are lacking. This is an expected trait with UE and from memory cannot recall a single UE game that didn't have these issues needing months/weeks of patches to somewhat resolve. They've got RED Engine to a realy good place so it puzzles me why they have abandoned it. Nvidia now have Ray reconstruction so ray tracing is now really clean and fast - Leverage what they have instead of starting from the ground would seem more sensible surely.

None of the current UE5 games have shown themselves to be anything stellar either, performance issues with stuttering still exist deep down at the engine level which Epic seem to be unable to resolve even though they promised it would be fixed in 5.2, and now we are on 5.4 with path tracing support....

 

[mrk]

It was cooked and packaged for Windows directly from UE on my system.

So there’s no download link as far as I know, at least not for the UE 5.4 version.

It’s also very heavy on resources while packaging, using over 60 GB of ram, so I can try to upload it somewhere if you need it. I can try to compress a zip to about 15 GB.

Ah I see, I thought it was already packaged and were able to check it out. Would be interesting to see how it runs though as I tried a previous version of Matrix on iirc UE5.2 back then.

 

[Proto]

Ah I see, I thought it was already packaged and were able to check it out. Would be interesting to see how it runs though as I tried a previous version of Matrix on iirc UE5.2 back then.

I’ll PM you a link once it’s been uploaded.

Probably add it to the video as well.

 

[Proto]

Ah I see, I thought it was already packaged and were able to check it out. Would be interesting to see how it runs though as I tried a previous version of Matrix on iirc UE5.2 back then.

I've sent you a PM.

 

[mrk]

Nice cheers, will check out in a few hours when it finishes

 

[Calin Banc]

This highlights it quite nicely.

There were single months of 2010 that had better games than we’ll see for the entirety of this year.

Fair enough, I guess it depends on what each individual is interested. From that list, at a quick view, besides STALKER, probably nothing would be of particular interest right now - and even STALKER purely on nostalgia for the series. They were decent, at least, then, now... same ol' (from a gameplay perspective).

I wasn't against it at all though. I've always known that RED was ancient, but it's optimised well now and looks great, but lacks potential for all the new stuff now out or coming out so it's time to move on with something more photo realistic with wider scope.

As for UE5 now:

That's at 5160x2160 using only DLAA in Epic settings. rather excellent performance:
Average framerate : 81.5 FPS
Minimum framerate : 65.3 FPS
Maximum framerate : 100.4 FPS
1% low framerate : 60.4 FPS
0.1% low framerate : 31.1 FPS

To be fair, is a small gameworld with not much happening.

I was specifically on about how well optimised RED engine is nowadays vs how Unreal Engine has always not been well optimised, but that has changed massively in recent time. Since UE5.3 and up Epic built i tools for devs to use that removes shader comp stutter but we still have some minor traversal stutter, night and day difference though. This is fine since the current RED engine also has minor traversal stutter in Cyberpunk so much of a muchness.

The problem with RED is it's inability to support some of the rendering techniques used by unreal 5, distance rendering is non existant in RED which is why stuff far away when you zoom in with your Kiroshi optics looks like something out of the 1990s, it's also why lights don't render properly for distant objects and why ray tracing doesn't cover that afr ahead either.

in unreal 5 Lumen and Nanite completely solve those issues and distance rendering has no pop-in for anything when using hardware ray tracing paths. Currently all UE5 games use software Lumen or hybrid Lumen along with Nanite in the latest titles. Still, once HW Lumen is being used, we will say goodbye to texture detail loss at a distance and shadow/texture pop-in, this is something RED cannot do and will never do because the people who knew how to implement it left CDPR and in 2022 CDPR signed a 15 year deal with EPIC to only develop with UE, which is probably why some of those RED experts left too.

People are forgetting that maintaining an in-house engine costs a lot of money and time, so why do that when you can literally make an entire movie in UE5 and make it playable? The creative side of UE5 comes down to individual devs, most games typically look "unreal" because they use similar assets and camera angles and whatnot, it's the actually creative devs that use their own assets and import into UE5 that will show what it's truly capable of. Look at the upcoming games like Perfect Dark, look at current releases like St ll Wakes the Deep. These don't use bundled assets but their own textures because the dev went out on location to photograph and 3d model etc to then use in UE5.

Star Engine seems frankly better from a gameplay pov. Rage is nice as well. The big thing is Nanite, that will help with pop in and less headaches due to poli optimizations.

 

[mrk]

Both Lumen and Nanite are the biggest selling points of UE now. Together they fix the age old issue with basically every game engine up to now, janky shadows at a distance and asset pop-in whether that's textures or shadows etc inc LoD for distant stuff, textures far away have the same detail as textures close to you which is pretty huge really.

Nanite makes the latter a non-issue now as we are seeing. Once HW Lumen is used/enabled and additional tech like Ray Reconstruction which is just an implementation thing for devs as UE5 supports is anyway, it's HW RT with great performance and clean RT noise. Currently the only mainstream game engines that have RR are Alan Wake 2 and Cyberpunk, now imagine every UE5 game that uses RT having it - Which eventually will more than likely be the case given it's supported by the engine out the box and makes dev's lives easier by not having to manually configure RT denoisers and then put up with the noise that comes with it.

They just need to streamline the entire shader/traversal hitch thing that UE is still famous for, even if it's minor now in current UE5 games.

 

[mrk]

I tried out that City demo, it finished downloading in woeful time

So the 4090 is being severely underutilised because the CPU is pegging upwards of 71% utilisation. Seems nothing of any compute nature is being done on the GPU in this (and previous) Matrix Awakens demos. It does run at 60fps, but there are frequent shader comp stutters because it's unoptimised. This is running at 3440x1440 of course. If DLSS is added to this and shader pre-compilation, then this would run at 100fps+ all day long.

 

[Proto]

The 4090 is giving a much bigger boost than I thought it would.

It’s definitely a very good looking piece of software.

 

[Calin Banc]

Both Lumen and Nanite are the biggest selling points of UE now. Together they fix the age old issue with basically every game engine up to now, janky shadows at a distance and asset pop-in whether that's textures or shadows etc inc LoD for distant stuff, textures far away have the same detail as textures close to you which is pretty huge really.

Nanite makes the latter a non-issue now as we are seeing. Once HW Lumen is used/enabled and additional tech like Ray Reconstruction which is just an implementation thing for devs as UE5 supports is anyway, it's HW RT with great performance and clean RT noise. Currently the only mainstream game engines that have RR are Alan Wake 2 and Cyberpunk, now imagine every UE5 game that uses RT having it - Which eventually will more than likely be the case given it's supported by the engine out the box and makes dev's lives easier by not having to manually configure RT denoisers and then put up with the noise that comes with it.

They just need to streamline the entire shader/traversal hitch thing that UE is still famous for, even if it's minor now in current UE5 games.

I was inclined more towards Nanite as RT/PT has been done by multiple games - and ran well, like Metro. Nanite stuff not so much.

 

[humbug]

I tried out that City demo, it finished downloading in woeful time

So the 4090 is being severely underutilised because the CPU is pegging upwards of 71% utilisation. Seems nothing of any compute nature is being done on the GPU in this (and previous) Matrix Awakens demos. It does run at 60fps, but there are frequent shader comp stutters because it's unoptimised. This is running at 3440x1440 of course. If DLSS is added to this and shader pre-compilation, then this would run at 100fps+ all day long.

This is literally a free environment pack with an FPS character added, baked, complied and packaged. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, its good that someone took the time to do it, but that's all this is and all it pertains to be

 

[Proto]

It’s the real deal.

A huge map or whole level at only around 17GB, and not only an insight into what’s to come, but also fun to play.

You would have to try it to understand.

 

[Calin Banc]

This is literally a free environment pack with an FPS character added, baked, complied and packaged. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, its good that someone took the time to do it, but that's all this is and all it pertains to be

Well... shouldn't the engine handle it well regardless? Nanite should make the poly count/geometry irrelevant in term of performance, idem for the textures - remember that in the initial reveal they were talking about 8k cinema assets, pixel accurate shadows, etc, all running on a PS5... So again, what gives? Is not like it has some incredible AI going on which kills the performance or an incredible beyond Red Faction physics. Is pretty basic...

 

[Calin Banc]

It’s the real deal.

A huge map or whole level at only around 17GB, and not only an insight into what’s to come, but also fun to play.

You would have to try it to understand.

If I remember correctly is procedurally generated, so it doesn't mean much. NMS is a whole universe and still fits in small package

 

[humbug]

Well... shouldn't the engine handle it well regardless? Nanite should make the poly count/geometry irrelevant in term of performance, idem for the textures - remember that in the initial reveal they were talking about 8k cinema assets, pixel accurate shadows, etc, all running on a PS5... So again, what gives? Is not like it has some incredible AI going on which kills the performance or an incredible beyond Red Faction physics. Is pretty basic...

No, the engine has tools to show you where the problems are but its up to you to sort it out.

 

[Proto]

If I remember correctly is procedurally generated, so it doesn't mean much. NMS is a whole universe and still fits in small package

OK.

I didn’t know that.

 

[Calin Banc]

No, the engine has tools to show you where the problems are but its up to you to sort it out.

Well, of course, the question is... what are the problems?

 

[MikeLoader]

Well, of course, the question is... what are the problems?

Overhyped LIES as allways - it sadly seems to be. But thats nothing new. Seems to be the norm like forever. New Engine and games will look like this yada yada. And years later, even before a new shiny engine comes out; we Never get games to look that good!