US election 2012
- Thread starter Duff-Man
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The main problem with the Republicans is that they've never really changed. They're still the racist white man's party:
(Source).
Unfortunately they haven't realised just how increasingly marginal and irrelevant their worldview truly is. Even more troubling is that they simply don't know how to think any other way, and can't see why they should.
(Source).
Unfortunately they haven't realised just how increasingly marginal and irrelevant their worldview truly is. Even more troubling is that they simply don't know how to think any other way, and can't see why they should.
Caporegime
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They don't because they think it's their country and they want it the way it was.
Blinders on, with the world around them changing and don't want to change because human beings by nature, despite all the slogans, hate change. We are a creature of habit, we want our tea with 2 sugars, we want Sunday roasts, we want Saturday football.
I'm not sure what is so wrong with what O'Reilly said (and yes, I've seen the interview). It's a simple statement of facts about the shifting demographics of the USA. And the reality is that a lot of the groups voting for Obama are doing so because of the reasons O'Reilly mentioned.
And as for marginal and irrelevant? Dude, Romney polled over 48% to Obama's under 50% last I saw. When GOP candidates are regularly polling sub 40% at a national level, then we'll talk marginal and irrelevant.
And let's be clear, O'Reilly isn't a Republican. He's a conservative, for sure, but he has no party affiliation nor does he associate himself with a party. The Atlantic, which you have referenced heavily, has a known Liberal bias so they're obviously going to fit stories to their agenda the same way the Washington Post, NYT, Fox News, MSNBC et al do.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20240375. Check the figures.
It's more than that. O'Reilly is complaining that the USA is not as white as it once was, and he's blaming non-whites for what he sees as the degradation of American society. Even conservative political commentators understood that this is what he meant, and they openly said so.
Here's the conservative website Buckhorn Road:
(Source).
Examples could be multiplied. Conservative pundits knew exactly what O'Reilly meant, and many of them agreed with his sentiments. White supremacists and other racists quoted him approvingly.
Are they? Prove it.
I am referring specifically to their views on race and religion.
Mere semantics and totally irrelevant. O'Reilly disagrees with the GOP on a few issues, but he votes Republican every time.
If you can find anything inaccurate in the material I've quoted, please do let me know.
Thank you, that proves my point. The Republicans are stuck with an increasingly irrelevant worldview in a changing world.
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Soldato
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Outstanding. He's a real statesman.
Christ, must you Fisk so aggressively? It's a nightmare to read.
First off, there was nothing O'Reilly said that was a complaint about the US not being as "white as it once was." This is people inferring what he meant. That is not the same as fact and I would expect you to know better.
Your snippet from Buckhorn Road actually adds no value to your original quote - it simply says O'Reilly's predictions of defeat were correct calls. You're reading what you want to believe is being said, not what is actually said. Much the same as the White Supremacists and Neo Nazis or whatever lunatics you have also linked to. There is seriously nothing untoward said by O'Reilly, but people are reading into it and twisting it into what they please to satisfy their own agendas. Again, this is par for the course in American politics - how can you claim to be so knowledgeable about the subject yet so naive as to how the system works?
I don't think you actually read my BBC link properly. It shows that what O'Reilly said was merely a summation of the factual demographics of the vote. Women, African Americans and Latino voters all tended to Obama in varying degrees. And guess what? O'Reilly was even talking about the same things as the BBC article - the exit polls. Does this mean that the BBC is a Republican institution? Or is it the pollsters pining for 1776 America?
I just don't get how you can equate such a close-run popular vote (~48% to ~49%)* as the defeated being irrelevant in some way. ~48% of Americans voted Republican. How can a party receiving so many votes be irrelevant to the population? Are you suggesting that they couldn't read what was on the ballot? That they voted Republican by accident?
I honestly don't want to get into some ****ging match with you, but your blind devotion to what you perceive as being racists fighting progressives is so misguided it makes your entire argument look like the ranting of a fanatic.
*Based on the numbers before Florida was called, not sure if these have changed yet.
Yes.
I find it easier, but each to his own.
Oh come on, that is sheer desperation. What does 'The white establishment is now the minority' mean to you? Does that sound like a shout for joy, or a complaint?
It goes further than that. It quotes his rationale (not his prediction, interestingly enough!) and endorses it wholesale.
This is what I'm reading:
Can you seriously tell me there is 'nothing untoward' here? That it's not a negative value judgement about these people's reasons for voting Obama? That it's not a lament about the rise of racial minorities and the numerical decline of white people?
I did not claim to be knowledgeable about the subject, but I'm certainly not naive as to how the system works.
I read it just fine. It shows that the demographics of the USA have changed substantially and that this has affected voting preferences. However, that is only part of what O'Reilly said. He went a lot further than this.
No it wasn't merely a summation of the demographics. O'Reilly imputed negative motives to minority voters. He accused them of selling their vote for handouts:
O'Reilly's message is clear: Hispanics, blacks and women only voted for Obama because they 'want stuff' and 'feel they are entitled to things', and they know he will give them what they want.
It's a ludicrous, outrageous slur that reflects an outdated worldview.
That is not what I said. Go back and read it. I've said it twice now, and it's in clear simple English.
Thank you for your amusing and irrational projection. It raised a smile.
Sorry pal, can't put myself through trying to read that level of inane pedantry.
This was really my central point way back when.
You're an Obama supporter. It's cool. I'm glad he won too (albeit for totally different and fewer reasons). But all this end zone dancing you're doing - it doesn't make for a coherent, well-reasoned or impartial argument. It's just gloating and quoting a number of horrendously biased sources as fact.
Again, not looking for a scrap. Just an observation.
You're an Obama supporter. It's cool. I'm glad he won too (albeit for totally different and fewer reasons). But all this end zone dancing you're doing - it doesn't make for a coherent, well-reasoned or impartial argument. It's just gloating and quoting a number of horrendously biased sources as fact.
Again, not looking for a scrap. Just an observation.
So you actually agree with me? Terrific.
Actually no, I am not an Obama supporter. I consider him the lesser of the two evils. That's all.
I have presented a coherent, well-reasoned argument. I can't claim it's impartial, but it does have the facts on its side and that's always a good sign. This is not mere gloating, it's a considered analysis of the reasons for the Republicans' failure; reasons they themselves have admitted.
If you believe I have quoted from 'horrendously biased sources', please identify them, prove they are 'horrendously biased', and list any errors.
Man of Honour
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I'm aware you've already been asked but why should Raymond or indeed anyone else be concerned about whites becoming a minority in Europe? In fact why would I care about whites being a global minority (although as D.P. points out you'd be a bit late to start worrying about that one)?
If you're still judging people on the amount of melanin in their skin rather than what they do then something has gone wrong somewhere along the line.
A trifle late but congratulations to Obama on his victory, his presidency has been far from perfect thus far but I wish him well for the future and that he continues to improve. Like with many politicians it's probably a least bad option rather than necessarily a "good" option but he's what America has so I can only hope he does well.
