Caporegime
They'll get rid of VAR and then first week there will be an incident VAR would have prevented and we'll be back to square one.
VARcical Decision
- Thread starter G-MAN2004
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Caporegime
Scrap it for a season, watch everyone mald about how bad the officials are at on-field refereeing, and then bring it back the next season but run by AI overlords instead of that bald bloke who convolutes everything.
I think if you draw a line, and maybe see if any distant clouds are over it, it may not be as clear as you think. Though could be wrong, better ask another assistant, then get confused.
I'd prefer for it to be scrapped, much prefer the occasional incorrect decision, that we get anyway, to the game being delayed. The human element won't get any better than it is now.
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Caporegime
I was just using that as it is a famous one. I am sure you could list plenty going back.
The problem isn't VAR but more the refs.
VAR decisions seem to take into account the refs feelings as #1 priority
#2 priority can't make refs look bad by telling them they made a bad call
Maybe VAR isn't the problem, get rid of refs instead, move them into the VAR box? have the ref on an open mic, fully transparent.
REfs on the pitch have less view than someone sitting in a var box.
have an assistant ref on the pitch? also with an open mic talking to the actual ref in the var box?
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Soldato
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- 21 Sep 2020
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I think it’s killing all the joy out of the game. They also don’t half make a pigs ear of every single bloody thing as well.
Theres no communication either. Its the way its implemented. It’s the ‘oh that’s not high enough bar’ ‘oh that can’t be changed’ ‘oh we can’t say for yellows’ etc etc
You could solve it and make it a far better system by doing a few simple things.
1. Offsides - lets use the semi automatic one they use in the champions league - if you can’t tell if the player is 100% offside by the still within 5 seconds. He’s on. This nonsense of a toe nail being offside is not what the offside rule is for.
2. If there is a huge mistake i.e Liverpools goal against Spurs, say to the ref. Not a single person would complain if the game got stopped 10 seconds after it restarted.
3. If there is a situation where the ref just misses something completely, the VAR should be telling him ‘oh you’ve missed that foul’
4. Can’t remember exactly what game it was but I seem to recall a ball going into the box whether it was a shot/cross can’t recall but there was a coming together in the refs view and the ball rolled out for a goal kick. Turns out it was actually a foul and should have been a pen it also hit the defender last so should have been a corner if it wasn’t a penalty - why isn’t VAR allowed to say yeh it’s on the fence for the pen I kind of agree with you on that one but it’s a corner. Rather than, yeh i’m on the fence so no penalty stick with the on field but he can’t advise/tell him the ball hit the defender last?
Does my head in.
Theres no communication either. Its the way its implemented. It’s the ‘oh that’s not high enough bar’ ‘oh that can’t be changed’ ‘oh we can’t say for yellows’ etc etc
You could solve it and make it a far better system by doing a few simple things.
1. Offsides - lets use the semi automatic one they use in the champions league - if you can’t tell if the player is 100% offside by the still within 5 seconds. He’s on. This nonsense of a toe nail being offside is not what the offside rule is for.
2. If there is a huge mistake i.e Liverpools goal against Spurs, say to the ref. Not a single person would complain if the game got stopped 10 seconds after it restarted.
3. If there is a situation where the ref just misses something completely, the VAR should be telling him ‘oh you’ve missed that foul’
4. Can’t remember exactly what game it was but I seem to recall a ball going into the box whether it was a shot/cross can’t recall but there was a coming together in the refs view and the ball rolled out for a goal kick. Turns out it was actually a foul and should have been a pen it also hit the defender last so should have been a corner if it wasn’t a penalty - why isn’t VAR allowed to say yeh it’s on the fence for the pen I kind of agree with you on that one but it’s a corner. Rather than, yeh i’m on the fence so no penalty stick with the on field but he can’t advise/tell him the ball hit the defender last?
Does my head in.
Caporegime
I have an idea, kinda similar what Lineker said on the podcast.
Each teams gets say 1 “review claim” per half.
Referee makes decision on the pitch.
If a team disagree with a decision, he can request the Ref to go to the monitor. The team (Captain only) has to tell the ref what the claim is for. From “there was handball”, “I was clipped in the ankle” etc
The ref goes to monitor and check for the claim.
There is NO VAR upstairs.
Ref then makes decision.
(For offside decisions then it’s the automated system)
Each teams gets say 1 “review claim” per half.
Referee makes decision on the pitch.
If a team disagree with a decision, he can request the Ref to go to the monitor. The team (Captain only) has to tell the ref what the claim is for. From “there was handball”, “I was clipped in the ankle” etc
The ref goes to monitor and check for the claim.
There is NO VAR upstairs.
Ref then makes decision.
(For offside decisions then it’s the automated system)
They do that in the NHL. you get a coaches challenge and it works really well. The difference is if you call a challenge and are wrong you lose a man for 2 minutes as well as losing the challenge. I hear nothing but complaining with NHL fans on how bad the video refs are but my god they are 50x better than the Premier League and much faster. I hate VAR in football, all I wanted was goal line technology anything else was human error I was prepared to put up with for the flow of the game.
Soldato
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If there is no VAR, does every goal get checked? So lets say team A scores from a foul. Team B goes yeh that’s a foul - checked correct and it’s chopped of. A while later in the same half Team A player dives in the box and it’s given by the ref.
Can Team B check it because they call their first call right?
Or similarly they then score another goal which has someone fouling a defender its clear as day it’s a foul but the ref just can’t see it - does that goal get checked or is it just tough ****?
Caporegime
It is only checked by the referee if the teams make a claim, otherwise the decision in real time stands.
You get one check, I guess if it was a valid claim then you don’t lose it.
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Seems like as it is now, the Ref will only see what VAR wants him/her to see.
people will complain they didn't get to see the whole event, or a poor angle on a loop showing about 2 seconds on a loop. totally ignoring anything else.
There's no guarantee the ref will be shown what the team wishes him/her to see.
Parts of the problem people see with var now is them directing what the ref sees surely? how many times have people screamed at the screen wondering why the ref is being shown X instead of Y?
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Soldato
Who communicates that to the captain if they’ve not seen anything themselves either?
Caporegime
You mean the other players who’s seen handball or been fouled wouldn’t shout “FOUL REF!” Or “HANDBALL!” And they will shut up and keep quiet?
Then the captain would just go to the ref and relay that, all it takes is asking his team mates “you sure?”
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Soldato
How long does all that take? And how does the captain know it’s not just someone crying foul?
Caporegime
I don’t know, it’s just an idea. I am thinking that he has 1 claim per half, so he has to be confident and use that wisely if he wants to get the ref to review it on screen. He will just have to look at his teammates and ask “you definitely saw it yeah?”
“Yes Stevie, get the ref to check it!”
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Soldato
I get what you’re saying, I just don’t think it’d work.
Only one claim per half? 30 seconds after he’s used that shout there could be a worse ‘miss’ by the ref. Far better and likely easier to just make the current system work properly I’d have thought.
The issue is that the refs are the best of a bad bunch and the worse ones are the ones trying to correct them over VAR presumably with some ridiculous pressure from above. Maybe keeping refs and VAR as completely separate entities would help?
Caporegime
Yeah, one claim per half, that’s my suggestion anyway…originally I was thinking 3 claims per match but the problem is the more you give, the more the ref goes to the monitor and slow the game down. If you give unlimited then it becomes useless. And I thought 1 is a bit tight.
1 per half or perhaps 3 in the whole game is enough so that players would use it only in important moments, like handball, penalty challenges or red card.
If you are out of claims…tough luck, such as life before VAR entirely.
The point is also remove the group of men upstairs, and for the fans in the stadium, at least they are seeing the same thing in real time and not having to stand there looking at “VAR check in progress”. There is only 1 guy in charge, the ref on the field and it doesn’t feel like the game is being re-referee from upstairs.
In the end, I’m thinking of a way to put in modern tech, blending in a way that flows better.
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