VARcical Decision

PikeyPriest said:
I think if you interpret a high foot studs first to the face as anything but a red card it is operator error rather than interpretation.
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It would appear you don't know the rules then. The decision for the ref (and then var) is whether a player made a reckless challenge or whether the challenge used excessive force and seriously endangered an opponent. It certainly could have been a red but we see just as many if not more of those challenges only resulting in a yellow.

Coincidentally, that was from the same game in which Skipp done this right:
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Thankfully he didn't step on the ball first or he could have been in trouble there.

I appreciate you were just making a cheap gag but there's a world of difference between an out right terrible decision and what happened yesterday, let along a highly debatable decision and what happened yesterday. Officials like any of us can make mistakes but yesterday we saw a complete breakdown in process that is (or should be) in place to prevent such mistakes. I'm sure I mentioned it last week, during the Brentford Everton game VAR very nearly ****ed up again - they mistakenly drew the offside lines against the wrong Brentford player and were about to rule out their goal. Thankfully they carry out a process after the check that allowed them to spot their mistake. Yesterday, for some unknown reason the VAR is meant to have not known what the onfield decision was - if all the VAR is going to tell the ref is "check complete" then surely there must be something that's said before the check that confirms he knows what he's checking for? Furthermore, what was the VAR doing after the check was completed. I've seen it reported that Spurs were set-up ready to take the free-kick for offside before the VAR completed his check and it took them over 30 seconds to restart after the decision. How does he not notice that the goal wasn't given in that time?
 
Reading this morning that Liverpool haven’t had a team given two yellows leading to a red since 2015.

there needs to be a full investigation. The first words out of the VAR teams mouth should be ‘what was the on field call?’ So there is no confusion. Also the freeze frame when the referee first looked at the screen was awful too, it set an expectation in the referees mind that it was a bad tackle. The first thing the rev sees should be the ten second build up, at normal speed. Every time they slow it down it makes it look worse.
 
MissChief said:
Reading this morning that Liverpool haven’t had a team given two yellows leading to a red since 2015.

there needs to be a full investigation. The first words out of the VAR teams mouth should be ‘what was the on field call?’ So there is no confusion. Also the freeze frame when the referee first looked at the screen was awful too, it set an expectation in the referees mind that it was a bad tackle. The first thing the rev sees should be the ten second build up, at normal speed. Every time they slow it down it makes it look worse.
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We top the fair play league most seasons and now we've had 4 red cards in 7 games.... something doesn't seem quite right there.
 
So they've layed the blame on Darren England and his assistant,removed them from duty.

Cowards, get rid of Webb and revamp the system. Farcical!

Removing them for one game alone isn't going to fix the shambles.
 
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BaZ87 said:
snip
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I just find it amusing that when wrong calls are made fans and managers are quick to say move on until they are the wrong end.

I think both Jota and Skipps fouls should have been reds, along with the Kane on Robertson from the other game I think.

For me the blame is 100% with the VAR team. The ref has seen the raised flag, not awarded the goal and has signalled for a goal kick. In the fairly long gap I just can’t believe that the VAR team have not noticed the goal was not given an intervened. They did not have to even have to draw lines, they just had to tell the ref to hold the restart. The player body language, goal kick…etc was soo obvious a goal had not been awarded I just can’t understand how they can say VAR were not aware the goal wasn’t given. It just seems like they gave control to the work experience student.

Personally, I think offside should be only on foot position and the players should have sensors in their boots in a set position and that is what should be used. If sensors are in line, goal given. Then computers can give the offside calls with no user input. I also this removes the vague body part that can score side and likely gives an advantage to the attacking team as your feet will be slightly behind your upper body if running at goal.
 
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JamesH85 said:
So they've layed the blame on Darren England and his assistant,removed them from duty.

Cowards, get rid of Webb and revamp the system. Farcical!

Removing them for one game alone isn't going to fix the shambles.
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If they had any integrity they would release the audio, giving 2 of the 3 var officals a nice little holiday does absolutely nothing- especially when one if those 2 has already had one due to his var **** up previously.
 
All these posts and not one 'it all balances out over a season'.

Liverpool were absolutely robbed. Those are the sort of decisions you could expect if I was watching the VAR screen in a liverpool game. Jota in particular, those are the sort of calls VAR was brought in to eradicate. In real time I can see why they might give it but on review, nothing in it.
 
dannyjo22 said:
All these posts and not one 'it all balances out over a season'.

Liverpool were absolutely robbed. Those are the sort of decisions you could expect if I was watching the VAR screen in a liverpool game. Jota in particular, those are the sort of calls VAR was brought in to eradicate. In real time I can see why they might give it but on review, nothing in it.
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Because it doesnt balance. Twice we've had major decisions with apologies in 7 games lmao.
 
C Kent said:
If they had any integrity they would release the audio, giving 2 of the 3 var officals a nice little holiday does absolutely nothing- especially when one if those 2 has already had one due to his var **** up previously.
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Out of interest, what would you expect the result to be if they did release the audio? Humiliating them? They clearly messed up for the goal, and have admitted to that in public. Jota messed up as well, so should we, the viewer, get their pound of flesh with him as well?

I don’t particularly care too much for Klopp but I like what he said on Match of the day about educating the officials and changing it in a positive way. I can get on board with that.
 
omnomnom said:
Because it doesnt balance. Twice we've had major decisions with apologies in 7 games lmao.
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I'm not sure whether we've had 1 apology, let alone 2. I certainly don't recall one after Bournemouth and they didn't apologise for yesterday.
Jimbeam3678 said:
Out of interest, what would you expect the result to be if they did release the audio? Humiliating them? They clearly messed up for the goal, and have admitted to that in public. Jota messed up as well, so should we, the viewer, get their pound of flesh with him as well?

I don’t particularly care too much for Klopp but I like what he said on Match of the day about educating the officials and changing it in a positive way. I can get on board with that.
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It's not about humiliating them but accountability and transparency. I'm the last person to question the integrity of officials and have regularly came on here to try and explain why decisions may have been made, even if I didn't agree with them but yesterday looks terrible for the guys on VAR and coupled with Mike Dean's admission in a recent interview about not doing his job to cover for the ref, it feeds into a view that lots of supporters have regarding the pgmol being an old boys club that just look out for each other rather than doing the job they're supposed to do.

Without hearing the audio and it showing the excuse to be accurate and a good reason why the var hasn't corrected the call before the restart then a lot of people are going to distrust VAR even more. You only have to listen to Neville yesterday to see that. The one part of VAR you can trust is the accuracy of the lines when determining whether somebody is offside or not and this incident despite being completely unrelated has resulted in him now publicly questioning that too.
 
BaZ87 said:
coupled with Mike Dean's admission in a recent interview about not doing his job to cover for the ref,
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lots of ex referee's come out with similar stuff - Halsey in 2016ish said the PGMOL pressure refs to lie and say if they've seen incidents in their match reports
 
so I was out and missed the controversy over the Diaz goal until this morning and I’m lost for words…what gives? I know it’s probably been discussed to death here but I’m literally lost for words.

Is it corruption? What is this “significant human error” all about?

I don’t want to go tin foil hat here but is this a bribe or something? What the hell is going on
 
BaZ87 said:
I'm not sure whether we've had 1 apology, let alone 2. I certainly don't recall one after Bournemouth and they didn't apologise for yesterday.

It's not about humiliating them but accountability and transparency. I'm the last person to question the integrity of officials and have regularly came on here to try and explain why decisions may have been made, even if I didn't agree with them but yesterday looks terrible for the guys on VAR and coupled with Mike Dean's admission in a recent interview about not doing his job to cover for the ref, it feeds into a view that lots of supporters have regarding the pgmol being an old boys club that just look out for each other rather than doing the job they're supposed to do.

Without hearing the audio and it showing the excuse to be accurate and a good reason why the var hasn't corrected the call before the restart then a lot of people are going to distrust VAR even more. You only have to listen to Neville yesterday to see that. The one part of VAR you can trust is the accuracy of the lines when determining whether somebody is offside or not and this incident despite being completely unrelated has resulted in him now publicly questioning that too.
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I agree with you, but I don’t think your calm and open-minded approach to these things is generally mirrored across the footballing world. You only need to read the description of this sub forum to see that A place where mindless thugs can abuse each other without upsetting normal people.

In general terms I think they should have live audio for all VAR reviews between on-field Ref & off-field Ref. Selecting to release audio for isolated incidents is never going to solve or help these type of incdients.
 
We had a goal disallowed last season as they drew the lines from the wrong player. Unfortunately there is going to be human interaction in the process for the foreseeable future id imagine, so mistakes will never be impossible.

Wasn’t there a game last season where they ‘forgot’ to draw the lines? It’s all just a shambles.
 
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