VARcical Decision

[Colonel_Klinck]

I'm struggling with the underlying point of your post. All I'm getting is that you're concerned that officials not good enough to manage in the PL might struggle for work if they can't speak Danish? They have no god given right to have positions officiating in major European leagues. They need to earn their spot and if they're not good enough to work here and don't have the language skills to work abroad then tough **** - that applies to everybody in every walk of life unfortunately. They can always officiate in the Championship and lower leagues if that's where their level dictates they should be.

The standard of officials in the PL is at the lowest point I can remember in my lifetime. Even compared to last season it seems significantly worse. I'm not aware of there being any rules preventing foreign officials from working in other European Leagues (in fact I'm aware of it happening for key games in some European leagues) but as yet the PL haven't decided to appoint a foreign ref. There's a very valid argument for the PL to flex it's muscles and appoint the best officials from around Europe.

Do you think fans in every country they aren't having the exact same conversation every weekend? Like I said there is nothing special about British or European refs. The only possible thing that might be removed by employing foreign refs is them not supporting a PL club but there is a very good chance many might support one of the big clubs in the PL, so what has been solved?

I'm merely pointing out that it solves no problem but creates more problems with the language barrier. If we take the top refs from European countries they will need to be replaced with UK refs and so you'll end up with inferior refs because they speak the language.

Yes some of the officiating has been bad, though its bad every season. The offside yesterday was on another level but it was human error and errors in their procedures. Getting foreign refs in isn't going to solve anything, its just a kneejerk idea.

 

[BaZ87]

Do you think fans in every country aren't having the exact same conversation every weekend? Like I said there is nothing special about British or European refs. The only possible thing that might be removed by employing foreign refs is them not supporting a PL club but there is a very good chance many might support one of the big clubs in the PL, so what has been solved?

I'm merely pointing out that it solves no problem but creates more problems with the language barrier. If we take the top refs from European countries they will need to be replaced with UK refs and so you'll end up with inferior refs because they speak the language.

Yes some of the officiating has been bad, though its bad every season. The offside yesterday was on another level but it was human error and errors in their procedures. Getting foreign refs in isn't going to solve anything, its just a kneejerk idea.

I don't really care whether other leagues have poor officials too. The PL has built itself into the biggest and strongest League in the world by buying all the best players, taking all the best coaches, physios, nutritionists, scouts and data analysts from around the world. Take the best officials too.

I'm not sure how you don't see that as solving a problem. Instead of ristricting yourself to an evee decreasing pool of officials just in the UK, open yourself up and take the best officials from around the world Or should we send all the foreign players back too because there's some rubbish players in Spain also? Your argument is nonsensical.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

I don't really care whether other leagues have poor officials too. The PL has built itself into the biggest and strongest League in the world by buying all the best players, taking all the best coaches, physios, nutritionists, scouts and data analysts from around the world. Take the best officials too.

I'm not sure how you don't see that as solving a problem. Instead of ristricting yourself to an evee decreasing pool of officials just in the UK, open yourself up and take the best officials from around the world Or should we send all the foreign players back too because there's some rubbish players in Spain also? Your argument is nonsensical.

I very much doubt here is anything stopping them working here already. What officials should we get in then?

Though the poster said no British officials for the PL which is just kneejerk nonsense.

 

[BaZ87]

I very much doubt here is anything stopping them working here already. What officials should we get in then?

Though the poster said no British officials for the PL which is just kneejerk nonsense.

I'm not really qualified to make that decision just like Klopp doesn't ask me to pick what players Liverpool sign but your point about appointing foreign officials not improving things just made no sense. If the PL went down that road (and there's no sign that they will) then they're only going to appoint the best available to them, they're not going to appoint the German Jon Moss.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

I'm not really qualified to make that decision just like Klopp doesn't ask me to pick what players Liverpool sign but your point about appointing foreign officials not improving things just made no sense. If the PL went down that road (and there's no sign that they will) then they're only going to appoint the best available to them, they're not going to appoint the German Jon Moss.

Its kneejerk nonsense to replace all PL officials with foreign officials. Now if there is some outstanding official and they speak great English and want to work in the UK then I see no reason why they couldn't work in the PL but that's it.

 

[Vandle]

If they can't staff the VAR duties correctly then they shouldn't have implemented it. All it's done for the game is taken away spontaneous celebrations and added a load of contentious issues in, feels like there isn't a week gone by where it hasn't been a major talking point and this human error BS they are spouting now shows the whole system up as being a farce and those in charge of it as being clowns. Mind it doesn't help when they seem to change the rules every year at the same time. Bin it off imo.

 

[woppy101]

If they can't staff the VAR duties correctly then they shouldn't have implemented it. All it's done for the game is taken away spontaneous celebrations and added a load of contentious issues in, feels like there isn't a week gone by where it hasn't been a major talking point and this human error BS they are spouting now shows the whole system up as being a farce and those in charge of it as being clowns. Mind it doesn't help when they seem to change the rules every year at the same time. Bin it off imo.

TBH VAR should be manned by 4 Ex/Referee's, 4 ex players and overseen by independent representatives from the PL/FA, with all matches looked at simultaneously in the same centralised location (its not very often incidents happen in exactly the same minute), much like the NFL do it.
im sure people would prefer slightly delayed decisions than the wrong/no decisions.

 

[Reuben klang]

TBH VAR should be manned by 4 Ex/Referee's, 4 ex players and overseen by independent representatives from the PL/FA, with all matches looked at simultaneously in the same centralised location (its not very often incidents happen in exactly the same minute), much like the NFL do it.
im sure people would prefer slightly delayed decisions than the wrong/no decisions.

I think that’s way over complicating things.

Ref and his VAR, speaking about it over comms while the video is played on the big screen.

It works almost flawless in rugby - they still make the odd mistake.

The technology is already there.

 

[manic111]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66978938

This is a really poor statement from Liverpool (and I'm a Liverpool fan). So far, the narrative has been almost entirely on our side. There is zero chance that we'll get a point given retroactively or that the game will be replayed, so by making threats to push for "escalation and resolution" we're not going to get anything beneficial out of it, and we come across as aggressive and whiny.

They should have said something along the lines of "We hope every club and fan can agree that VAR in its current form is a mess, epitomised by Saturday's incident. At this stage we need to come together to ensure that we receive clarity from PGMOL and to work together so we can move forward with a system which is fit for purpose".

 

[C Kent]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66978938

This is a really poor statement from Liverpool (and I'm a Liverpool fan). So far, the narrative has been almost entirely on our side. There is zero chance that we'll get a point given retroactively or that the game will be replayed, so by making threats to push for "escalation and resolution" we're not going to get anything beneficial out of it, and we come across as aggressive and whiny.

They should have said something along the lines of "We hope every club and fan can agree that VAR in its current form is a mess, epitomised by Saturday's incident. At this stage we need to come together to ensure that we receive clarity from PGMOL and to work together so we can move forward with a system which is fit for purpose".

What exactly is poor about the statement? Would it be Liverpool saying that explanation is "unacceptable" thats poor, or is it calling for a "review with full transparency" that's poor?

 

[manic111]

What exactly is poor about the statement? Would it be Liverpool saying that explanation is "unacceptable" thats poor, or is it calling for a "review with full transparency" that's poor?

In particular, it's the "In the meantime, we will explore the range of options available, given the clear need for escalation and resolution". That's a very thinly veiled threat, and clearly includes discussions with their lawyers (as a lawyer, it reads a lot like stuff I've put in letters myself). It's a completely needless paragraph and changes the tone of the whole statement

 

[C Kent]

In particular, it's the "In the meantime, we will explore the range of options available, given the clear need for escalation and resolution". That's a very thinly veiled threat, and clearly includes discussions with their lawyers (as a lawyer, it reads a lot like stuff I've put in letters myself). It's a completely needless paragraph and changes the tone of the whole statement

By all accounts we requested the var audio etc after the game, given the last paragraph it would seem the pgmol have basically said nah, not happening.

You've already got neville backtracking on his statements after the game because the pgmol apolgised - as pointed out by Cates yesterday they haven't. We (every club) has essentially got 2 options, continue to accept var in its current form or try and bring 'transparency' to the process. Every fan of every club has been saying the same thing since its inception, but all of a sudden because its Liverpool they'll quite happily take the side of the pgmol and we should just shut up and accept it. **** that.

 

[manic111]

By all accounts we requested the var audio etc after the game, given the last paragraph it would seem the pgmol have basically said nah, not happening.

You've already got neville backtracking on his statements after the game because the pgmol apolgised - as pointed out by Cates yesterday they haven't. We (every club) has essentially got 2 options, continue to accept var in its current form or try and bring 'transparency' to the process. Every fan of every club has been saying the same thing since its inception, but all of a sudden because its Liverpool they'll quite happily take the side of the pgmol and we should just shut up and accept it. **** that.

Eh? Have you read my first post on the subject in full? There's no need to stop pushing the PGMOL on the subject, and they should rightly conduct this investigation and an investigation into VAR in full with absolute transparency, in addition to working with each club to reach a more acceptable solution.

But there's no need at this stage for ridiculous threats which get nobody anywhere and which make us look worse in the public eye.

 

[jeffk]

TBH VAR should be manned by 4 Ex/Referee's, 4 ex players and overseen by independent representatives from the PL/FA, with all matches looked at simultaneously in the same centralised location (its not very often incidents happen in exactly the same minute), much like the NFL do it.
im sure people would prefer slightly delayed decisions than the wrong/no decisions.

Despite having all the time in the world to review decisions, NFL officials still make a lot of wrong calls (they got a big call in the Chiefs v Jets game last night wrong for example).

Human errors are always going to happen. The great thing about football is that it’s a game of fine margins. The better team doesn’t always win. Unfortunately that also means that a couple of refereeing errors can have a huge impact on a result.

 

[C Kent]

Eh? Have you read my first post on the subject in full? There's no need to stop pushing the PGMOL on the subject, and they should rightly conduct this investigation and an investigation into VAR in full with absolute transparency, in addition to working with each club to reach a more acceptable solution.

And as I said, there's already calls for us to 'drop it' because the pgmol 'admitted to the error'

But there's no need at this stage for ridiculous threats which get nobody anywhere and which make us look worse in the public eye.

Disagree 100% with this, playing 'nice' doesn't get clubs anywhere - it hasn't every other time there's been a **** up by the var officials. Although there hasn't been **** up quite like this where every statement put out by the officials contradicts the previous.

 

[manic111]

Disagree 100% with this, playing 'nice' doesn't get clubs anywhere - it hasn't every other time there's been a **** up by the var officials. Although there hasn't been **** up quite like this where every statement put out by the officials contradicts the previous.

It depends what you want to achieve. If you want this to get us - Liverpool - something (a replay, a point, whatever), it won't. There is just no way that's happening. So from that perspective, the only question about the statement is whether it achieves anything worthwhile and I can't see that it does.

If you're looking at VAR investigation and reform, at present we're in a situation where the PGMOL look like the bad guys to everyone. Everyone knows they've ****** up and we're in a position to push strongly for change with all other clubs on our side. An aggressive statement from us alone does not change that and again it may make coordinated effort among all clubs less palatable. Get the clubs together, work out what to do, and then make appropriate statements.

Either way, I can't see the benefit of that statement and think it does more harm than good.

 

[C Kent]

It depends what you want to achieve. If you want this to get us - Liverpool - something (a replay, a point, whatever), it won't. There is just no way that's happening. So from that perspective, the only question about the statement is whether it achieves anytime worthwhile and I can't see that it does.

Of course that's not going to happen now, only the most mindless of twitter user expects that outcome. People want transparency.

IAn aggressive statement from us alone does not change that and again it may make coordinated effort among all clubs less palatable.

It may may a coordinated effort more palatable - we'll just have to wait and see what, if anything, will happen next.

 

[manic111]

Of course that's not going to happen now, only the most mindless of twitter user expects that outcome. People want transparency.

It may may a coordinated effort more palatable - we'll just have to wait and see what, if anything, will happen next.

But that's exactly my point. So why make a statement which is at best meaningless and at worst unpleasant and makes us look bad?

 

[C Kent]

But that's exactly my point. So why make a statement which is at best meaningless and at worst unpleasant and makes us look bad?

I don't care if a statement 'makes us look bad' if football tribalism is at a point where everyone agrees on something and then they change their mind because we've got the nuts to actually do something about it then they aren't worth the time of day, especially when you can guarantee they will moan about the next subjective decision that doesnt go their way.

 

[manic111]

I don't care if a statement 'makes us look bad' if football tribalism is at a point where everyone agrees on something and then they change their mind because we've got the nuts to actually do something about it then they aren't worth the time of day, especially when you can guarantee they will moan about the next subjective decision that doesnt go their way.

But we haven't "actually done something about it". We've had a bit of a public whinge.