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Vega refresh in 2018, current Vega is broken!

I don't thing a refresh/die srink is going to fix the core problems with core of there current architecture sadly.

I think AMD realised they can't compete with NVidia's IPC type architecture so invested R&D into innovation like HBCC and Infinity, for all we know, NVidia could have a patent on something that makes their cards stupidily fast with a few cores. In the long run AMD's strategy could pay off more, multi module Navi? 2Gb HBM2 with HBCC, 1Gb Level 3 cache with HBCC? Trying to beat NVidia at a sprint where they are now is a complete waste of money, so long term strategy was their only option. As has been said by other people, NVidia could be out of reach by then.

AMD need a disruptive graphics product, Ryzen was clearly one.

It doesn't look like Vega was intended as end user gaming card but I'm ever optimistic and it didn't stop me buying one.
 
Even if the poster making the claims has some actual info,why is it news?? Look at almost every generation of graphics card in the last decade?? There have been second generation refinements with a slightly updated feature set or better performance/watt:
1.)GTX400 to GTX500 series
2.)HD5000 to HD6000 series
3.)Kepler 1 to Kepler 2
4.)Maxwell 1(GTX750TI) to Maxwell 2(GTX900 series)
5.)GCN1.2(Fury/Tonga) to Polaris

So,AMD will release a slightly refined Vega on a slightly refined process node - it just seems like a midlife update of what they have now.

Its no different than with CPUs.

Clock for Clock there is next to no difference from Fuji and Vega:

on one hand I call BS on this for the above reason, on the other hand I this could be true and while working features might help performance more of the chip being used will also mean more power, so a clocked and power staved heater of a chip will just have be throttled even more.

Vega is still a modern day R600, Rankine (NV30) and to a lesser degree Fermi (NVC0)

I don't thing a refresh/die srink is going to fix the core problems with core of there current architecture sadly.

Nah,the R600 and NV30 were worse by far - both of them not only were late but debuted on newer process nodes when compared to the 8800GTX and 9700PRO which were made on the previous generation ones. Plus the R600 and NV30 did poorly on the modern APIs of the day,ie, DX9 and DX10,and the R600 had terrible AA performance which also affected the follow up HD3000 series. The NV30 issues were compounded by it also having a dual slot cooler in an era of single slot coolers(which Nvidia themselves mocked in a famous video) and Half Life 2 having issues with the FX series.

At least even with Vega being late,its OKish in modern APIs and is not using a better node than the competition,which is a generation ahead. Its not quite Fermi either since Nvidia still managed to debut the fastest card at launch.
 
I think AMD realised they can't compete with NVidia's IPC type architecture so invested R&D into innovation like HBCC and Infinity, for all we know, NVidia could have a patent on something that makes their cards stupidily fast with a few cores. In the long run AMD's strategy could pay off more, multi module Navi? 2Gb HBM2 with HBCC, 1Gb Level 3 cache with HBCC? Trying to beat NVidia at a sprint where they are now is a complete waste of money, so long term strategy was their only option. As has been said by other people, NVidia could be out of reach by then.

AMD need a disruptive graphics product, Ryzen was clearly one.

It doesn't look like Vega was intended as end user gaming card but I'm ever optimistic and it didn't stop me buying one.

I think both Nvidia (https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/252022-nvidia-considers-multi-chip-gpus-future-designs) and AMD are considering multi chip designs, Feels we are going back to the the older Voodoo days where the TMU's FBP where different chips. HBCC can only do so much and only works when the main vram is full up, its a nice to have technology which I hope Nvidia will do officially on there chips but HBCC which uses your system ram is never going to be a replacement for dedicated VRAM.

I agree both AMD and us the consumer need a disruptive graphics product (a new 9700 pro or 5870 please) I don't think they will get it with GCN (even heavily modified) the memory controller on they pair with GCN is a power hog as well, some 20w+ on Polaris and that was a 256bit bus board with a 150w TDP I hate to think whats Vega's is like.

In short AMD need to start from scratch again:
 
I think both Nvidia (https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/252022-nvidia-considers-multi-chip-gpus-future-designs) and AMD are considering multi chip designs, Feels we are going back to the the older Voodoo days where the TMU's FBP where different chips. HBCC can only do so much and only works when the main vram is full up, its a nice to have technology which I hope Nvidia will do officially on there chips but HBCC which uses your system ram is never going to be a replacement for dedicated VRAM.

I agree both AMD and us the consumer need a disruptive graphics product (a new 9700 pro or 5870 please) I don't think they will get it with GCN (even heavily modified) the memory controller on they pair with GCN is a power hog as well, some 20w+ on Polaris and that was a 256bit bus board with a 150w TDP I hate to think whats Vega's is like.

In short AMD need to start from scratch again:

Not sure they do TBH. All the new games seem to favour AMD's b0rked hardware.
 
AFAIK those features talked about as "broken" in hardware aren't doing anything useful on current Vega not because of hardware issues but because despite the hype they need application developers to update or implement code for them.
 
Yes but if it suddenly starts working with the refresh that'd certainly be odd.

Can't see that happening - the hardware relies on application developers to function in its best performance/efficiency mode and any way around that really would be like nVidia do with software brute forcing it and not requiring a hardware fix.
 
A non b0rked Vega would probably be amazing a Respin at Global looks like it will add 10-15% more performance and 10-15% more chips per wafer.
 
So only 10% behind the 1080ti then, well that makes up for everything.:rolleyes:

AMD moves into the fine vinegar market, seeing as their wine crop has soured somewhat. :D;):D
 
Vega's hardware isn't broken, it just doesn't live up to the hype of their fanbase and furthermore to get any sizeable benefits needs a lot of application specific developer work. Vega still suffers many of the same bottlenecks that hampered earlier GCN cards such as geometry throughput and load balancing extremely deep shader engines. AMD will need to move on from GCN to realize bigger performance gains.

There probaly will be an udated Vega but it wont close the performance gap, let alone have any hope of competing with Nvidia Ampere. Vega2 will probably be used to try and unify AMD's offerings by replacing Polaris.
 
Vega's hardware isn't broken, it just doesn't live up to the hype of their fanbase and furthermore to get any sizeable benefits needs a lot of application specific developer work. Vega still suffers many of the same bottlenecks that hampered earlier GCN cards such as geometry throughput and load balancing extremely deep shader engines. AMD will need to move on from GCN to realize bigger performance gains.

There probaly will be an udated Vega but it wont close the performance gap, let alone have any hope of competing with Nvidia Ampere. Vega2 will probably be used to try and unify AMD's offerings by replacing Polaris.

Thanks for that Mystic Meg.
 
There could be some truth to that, but I'd like to see someone test it in a variety of games.
One thing no-one picks up on is how well Vega is at using minimal power in an FPS capped mode at 60/75hz.
Vega's hardware isn't broken, it just doesn't live up to the hype of their fanbase and furthermore to get any sizeable benefits needs a lot of application specific developer work. Vega still suffers many of the same bottlenecks that hampered earlier GCN cards such as geometry throughput and load balancing extremely deep shader engines. AMD will need to move on from GCN to realize bigger performance gains.

There probaly will be an udated Vega but it wont close the performance gap, let alone have any hope of competing with Nvidia Ampere. Vega2 will probably be used to try and unify AMD's offerings by replacing Polaris.

If they can get over the current hump at around 1600mhz and reduce power consumption by 200w then it'll scale to 1800mhz-2000mhz. Currently on air it takes around 350w to scale to 1650mhz-1700mhz or 80w less on water.
A revised node and transistor layout could buy them some time, but really they should have done this back in june, with cutting down the die to the bare essentials and releasing 3 versions of vega II at 180mm2, 300mm2 and 400mm2.
So the driver team would have 3 identical architectures to write drivers for.

You're right about scheduling problems but if looking at dx11 then most of the time it behaves like gcn1.2. In dx12 though the front end does provide good throughput.
 
So only 10% behind the 1080ti then, well that makes up for everything.:rolleyes:

AMD moves into the fine vinegar market, seeing as their wine crop has soured somewhat. :D;):D

Yeah Pascal is we'll past It's sell by date even with 10% more alcohol.
 
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