Venezuela the failed socialist state - Rising tensions.

[iamtheoneneo]

Socialism has never worked on a national level. I don't know why people keep trying it.

Because it was 'never the right way' basically.
But yeh socialism is stupid, I'm not saying capitalism works long term either but it's a significantly better based on all current evidence.

 

[SPG]

Yeah and America has not been dabbling in the background in any shape or form as Venezuelans wont let them in on their oil and we all know anything even slightly socialist is communism in American eyes. American has done more damage to the world than good, hell they cant even look after their own never mind anyone else. Anything they have achieved is been done my immigrants special Visa and such like.

Country is on the wane, idiots trying to bring the glory of the 1950`s but the accountants and money men of wall street sold the country out years ago.

Live that American dream... oh wait its a lie and rigged system.

 

[Scania]

Further to my post in the Labour Party thread, reading about the disaster that is Venezuela, it makes me shudder that this cretin could well end up in power here with the same flawed ideology....

Truly scary.

 

[StriderX]

Further to my post in the Labour Party thread, reading about the disaster that is Venezuela, it makes me shudder that this cretin could well end up in power here with the same flawed ideology....

Truly scary.

And you'll get him because low and behold, the Tories asset stripping the countries poorest to assuage the richest doesn't work too well. You deserve him, just like France deserves Le Penn, the US deserves Trump and perhaps if i should be so bold, how Syria deserved Assad.

 

[Scania]

And you'll get him because low and behold, the Tories asset stripping the countries poorest to assuage the richest doesn't work too well. You deserve him, just like France deserves Le Penn, the US deserves Trump and perhaps if i should be so bold, how Syria deserved Assad.

Just lol.

 

[PlacidCasual]

Mineral rich developing nations always tend towards authoritarianism because the link between the good of the people and the income of the state is broken. The wealth flows with or without a functioning economy, the power brokers get their cut. To a lesser extent aid spending has had the same effect in Africa. NGO's and Governments go through the state to get access, the guys at the top take their cut and get their Mercedes even if everyone else is starving or a subsistence farmer. If you need the people to work hard to produce things to sell to get income you treat the population better because without them there is no income.

 

[VincentHanna]

Further to my post in the Labour Party thread, reading about the disaster that is Venezuela, it makes me shudder that this cretin could well end up in power here with the same flawed ideology....

Truly scary.

I replied in that thread too...

Check the date of the message that Corbyn sent (March 5th 2013, Hugo Chavez had just died)

with the reply from Gary Collard (whoever that is)

Sep 16th 2015 - 30 months later!

Can you really hold it against someone who is writing a elegy/tribute (of sorts) the day that somebody dies, when it comes out nearly 3 years later that the country was failing under it's next leader and that Chavez daughter ended up (allegedly) very wealthy?

This is the UK prime minister, 1 year before the UK declared War on Germany, signing a treaty with Hitler....

"Hindsight is a wonderful thing"

 

[aardvark]

everybody knew chavez was dirty and raping the country for his own benefit - it wasn't a secret.

 

[FTM]

Socialism has never worked on a national level. I don't know why people keep trying it.

its a fine theory....unfortunately people are people, and that screws it all up

people ruin everything

 

[iamtheoneneo]

I replied in that thread too...

Check the date of the message that Corbyn sent (March 5th 2013, Hugo Chavez had just died)

with the reply from Gary Collard (whoever that is)

Sep 16th 2015 - 30 months later!

Can you really hold it against someone who is writing a elegy/tribute (of sorts) the day that somebody dies, when it comes out nearly 3 years later that the country was failing under it's next leader and that Chavez daughter ended up (allegedly) very wealthy?

This is the UK prime minister, 1 year before the UK declared War on Germany, signing a treaty with Hitler....

"Hindsight is a wonderful thing"

Chamberlain is widely considered to have been a very weak leader , his strategy was flawed and he failed to form alliances that could have stopped Hitler pretty early on. His whole motto was centred around conflict avoidance in a time where everyone wanted to fight. It was stupid logic that Churchill fought hard to correct.

the similarities with Corbyn, is pretty much that he too is a weak leader that will thankfully never gain power.

 

[VincentHanna]

Chamberlain is widely considered to have been a very weak leader , his strategy was flawed and he failed to form alliances that could have stopped Hitler pretty early on. His whole motto was centred around conflict avoidance in a time where everyone wanted to fight. It was stupid logic that Churchill fought hard to correct.

the similarities with Corbyn, is pretty much that he too is a weak leader that will thankfully never gain power.

When it was first signed, it was considered a good deal by the public, at least for a few months.

The British population had expected imminent war and the "statesman-like gesture" of Chamberlain was at first greeted with acclaim. Chamberlain was greeted as a hero by the royal family and invited on the balcony at Buckingham Palace before he had presented the agreement to Parliament. The generally positive reaction quickly soured despite royal patronage. But there was opposition from the start; Clement Attlee and the Labour Party opposed the agreement, in alliance with two Conservative MPs, Duff Cooper and Vyvyan Adams, who had been seen up to then as a die hard and reactionary element in the Conservative Party.

As the threat of Germany and a European war became more evident, opinions changed.

 

[dowie]

Though at the time certain members of the Royal Family seemed to be rather sympathetic to the Nazis!

 

[Nasher]

Not just the Royals, Hitler had a lot of supporters all over Europe. Until they found out what he was actually up to.

 

[Scania]

I replied in that thread too...

Check the date of the message that Corbyn sent (March 5th 2013, Hugo Chavez had just died)

with the reply from Gary Collard (whoever that is)

Sep 16th 2015 - 30 months later!

Can you really hold it against someone who is writing a elegy/tribute (of sorts) the day that somebody dies, when it comes out nearly 3 years later that the country was failing under it's next leader and that Chavez daughter ended up (allegedly) very wealthy?

This is the UK prime minister, 1 year before the UK declared War on Germany, signing a treaty with Hitler....

"Hindsight is a wonderful thing"

This...

everybody knew chavez was dirty and raping the country for his own benefit - it wasn't a secret.

& this.

Chamberlain is widely considered to have been a very weak leader , his strategy was flawed and he failed to form alliances that could have stopped Hitler pretty early on. His whole motto was centred around conflict avoidance in a time where everyone wanted to fight. It was stupid logic that Churchill fought hard to correct.

the similarities with Corbyn, is pretty much that he too is a weak leader that will thankfully never gain power.

 

[StriderX]

Chamberlain is widely considered to have been a very weak leader , his strategy was flawed and he failed to form alliances that could have stopped Hitler pretty early on. His whole motto was centred around conflict avoidance in a time where everyone wanted to fight. It was stupid logic that Churchill fought hard to correct.

the similarities with Corbyn, is pretty much that he too is a weak leader that will thankfully never gain power.

And yet we as a country would have been in a much better position if we held back for a few more years to prepare, instead we turned tail and ran across the channel... hardly "stupid logic", just not the right logic. Churchill was also wrong and it got millions killed, indeed the holocaust may have been avoided aswell.

Which is yet more glorious "hindsight".

 

[Dolph]

I replied in that thread too...

Check the date of the message that Corbyn sent (March 5th 2013, Hugo Chavez had just died)

with the reply from Gary Collard (whoever that is)

Sep 16th 2015 - 30 months later!

Can you really hold it against someone who is writing a elegy/tribute (of sorts) the day that somebody dies, when it comes out nearly 3 years later that the country was failing under it's next leader and that Chavez daughter ended up (allegedly) very wealthy?

This is the UK prime minister, 1 year before the UK declared War on Germany, signing a treaty with Hitler....

"Hindsight is a wonderful thing"

And your reply was also rubbished in SC because you failed to check what was actually happening in venezuela.

Human rights watch have been lambasting the regime for their behaviour for many years before that.

Heres the view from 2011 (2012 report)

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2012/country-chapters/venezuela

 

[LizardKing]

Chamberlain is widely considered to have been a very weak leader , his strategy was flawed and he failed to form alliances that could have stopped Hitler pretty early on. His whole motto was centred around conflict avoidance in a time where everyone wanted to fight. It was stupid logic that Churchill fought hard to correct.

the similarities with Corbyn, is pretty much that he too is a weak leader that will thankfully never gain power.

I wouldnt compare Corbyn to Chamberlain, that's on the unfair side.
He may not have been a great war leader but Chamberlain was not quite the fool he was made out to be, at the time England was in no fit state to call war on an already prepared Germany, appeasement was by far the better option at that time, he knew we were heading for war otherwise why would he ensure the RAF were better prepared as soon as he stepped off the plane. Had we gone to war straight away we would have been slaughtered. And no doubt would have lost the battle of Britain had it happened sooner than it did!

 

[ahar]

the guys at the top take their cut and get their Mercedes even if everyone else is starving or a subsistence farmer.

To be fair, while the oil price was high a lot of the wealth did flow down to government services. Not saying there wasn't corruption but illiteracy fell significantly, as did child mortality. Compared to previous governments, Chavez in mid 2000s did a lot of good for the poor in Venezuela.

It wasn't sustainable, and you can argue that the eventual reckoning is worse than the problems before it. You can definitely argue that they didn't do very much to break the country's dependence on oil and the reaction to the collapse in oil prices (mostly by Maduro rather than Chavez) was boneheaded in the extreme. But Chavez and his government weren't just extracting rents and letting the population starve as you've had in other countries.

 

[Dolph]

To be fair, while the oil price was high a lot of the wealth did flow down to government services. Not saying there wasn't corruption but illiteracy fell significantly, as did child mortality. Compared to previous governments, Chavez in mid 2000s did a lot of good for the poor in Venezuela.

It wasn't sustainable, and you can argue that the eventual reckoning is worse than the problems before it. You can definitely argue that they didn't do very much to break the country's dependence on oil and the reaction to the collapse in oil prices (mostly by Maduro rather than Chavez) was boneheaded in the extreme. But Chavez and his government weren't just extracting rents and letting the population starve as you've had in other countries.

Noble but unsustainable good intentions that end in starvation and oppression is de rigour for socialist States.

 

[jimjamuk]

And yet we as a country would have been in a much better position if we held back for a few more years to prepare, instead we turned tail and ran across the channel... hardly "stupid logic", just not the right logic. Churchill was also wrong and it got millions killed, indeed the holocaust may have been avoided aswell.

Which is yet more glorious "hindsight".

Well we might have been although we would have still been on the back foot. Germany however really wanted to build its forces further to include a half decent Navy. But "lucky" for us Hitler didnt want to wait and kicked it all off early. Their army still managed to steam roller France and the small army we had