Volkswagen cheats emissions tests!

Kenai said:
Given the amount they've admitted to, I would expect the Euro 6 cars are by the book. It would kill VW if they were caught cheating and lying, fessed up to it, then got caught lying about the same thing again, I don't think they'd be that brave / stupid.
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Quite - they'd be admitting to every single diesel related cheat possible right now, as it couldnt really get any worse. Whereas saying nothing and then it coming out 6 months later that there was even more would have a significant effect.
 
Quote from Motortrader.com

Volkswagen Group UK has announced its action plan to modify diesel vehicles with EA 189 EU5 engines affected by the emissions scandal.

It said 1.2 million cars – including VW, Seat, Skoda, Audi and VW commercial vehicles – in the UK are fitted with the software behind the emissions scandal.

Over the next few days it will be releasing the Vehicle Identification Number details of affected cars to dealers.

It will also set up a self service for customers to check if their vehicle is affected.

“Step by step, affected customers will be contacted, with details of a process to get their vehicles corrected in the near future. In the meantime, all vehicles are technically safe and roadworthy.

“Under the action plan, the Volkswagen Group brands whose vehicles are affected will present the technical solutions and measures to relevant responsible authorities in October.

“Customers with these vehicles will be kept informed over the coming weeks and months. All of the Group brands affected will set up national websites to update customers on developments,” it said in a statement.

New vehicles with EU6 engines currently available are not affected. V6 TDI and V8TDI are also unaffected, it said.

Breakdown of vehicles fitted with software

Volkswagen Passenger Cars – 508,276
Audi – 393,450
Seat – 76,773
Skoda – 131,569
Volkswagen CVs – 79,838
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VW cars with cheat software will not be liable for higher VED

The government confirmed today that owners of VW diesel cars fitted with emissions cheating software will not have to pay higher VED.

It said it is currently trying to establish the extent of the practice and is now entering the next phase of the investigation, looking at whether the illegal software used by VW is being used elsewhere.

The Department for Transport (DfT) wrote to manufacturers last week to seek further clarity and this next phase will include laboratory and real world testing by the Vehicle Certification Agency (VCA).

Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin said: “Our priority is to protect the public and give them full confidence in diesel tests. The government expects VW to support owners of these vehicles already purchased in the UK and we are playing our part by ensuring no one will end up with higher tax costs as a result of this scandal.

“We are also starting our testing programme to get to the bottom of what the situation is for VW cars in the UK and understand the wider implications for other car types to give all consumers certainty.

“I have been pressing for action at an EU-level to improve emissions tests and will continue to do so. I have also called for a Europe-wide investigation into the use of ‘defeat devices’, in parallel to the work we are doing in the UK,” he said.

In addition to writing to manufacturers, the DfT has also urged EU-level action to improve public confidence in testing.

DfT said it will work closely with VCA and the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) to carry out the programme of tests. Neither cars nor the testing facilities will be provided by the vehicle industry.

The next phase of the programme will involve initially re-testing diesel cars that VW group has confirmed contain ‘defeat device’ software of Euro 5 category, approved by the VCA, in both a laboratory and real-world setting. These measurements will be used as a benchmark for further testing, with the final programme to be developed.

The government is liaising with other EU countries’ approval authorities who are currently conducting similar investigations. This coordinated approach will improve consistency and enable testing of the widest range of vehicles across Europe.
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any concerns about values of second hand cars can go now DfT has confirmed people's car tax won't be affected.

The only reason most people buy diesels is because of the cheap tax. Plus its not like its every VW from a certain year, its only one engine and as a casual punter on the forecourt, you'd have no idea if the car you're buying is one of the affected ones or not. You could check if you were really bothered, but considering most of joe public buys their cars by walking onto a forecort and picking whatever is in their price range in a nice colour with zero research or shopping about, it will make no difference whatsoever to them.
 
I think the bigger story here is the subsequent reform of emission/economy testing that was due for 2017 anyway but is now going to be much more thorough.

It will be interesting to see how manufacturers market their new 2017 model with 20% less economy than the previous years model :p

It might also be another death nail for company car drivers who can't take a cash alternative like myself.
 
So Seat brought out a tool for checking their cars (http://www.seat.co.uk/owners/diesel-engines/vin-number.html) and sadly mine is affected, however I'm curious of something:

Why do I care?

As I understand it, it's a software piece I'll never trigger, which will do absolutely nothing to me in any way, and won't affect tax. The only way in which I am at all affected is by having to take my car to a dealer to have it removed. Surely unless Seat incentivise me to do so, I shouldn't bother?
 
Redgie said:
So Seat brought out a tool for checking their cars (http://www.seat.co.uk/owners/diesel-engines/vin-number.html) and sadly mine is affected, however I'm curious of something:

Why do I care?

As I understand it, it's a software piece I'll never trigger, which will do absolutely nothing to me in any way, and won't affect tax. The only way in which I am at all affected is by having to take my car to a dealer to have it removed. Surely unless Seat incentivise me to do so, I shouldn't bother?
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I suppose it depends if the software actually makes a difference to real world fuel economy or emissions (CO2 or NOx). Without knowing the details of what exactly will be affected by the revised software, I don't think anyone can make an informed decision.
 
Redgie said:
So Seat brought out a tool for checking their cars (http://www.seat.co.uk/owners/diesel-engines/vin-number.html) and sadly mine is affected, however I'm curious of something:

Why do I care?

As I understand it, it's a software piece I'll never trigger, which will do absolutely nothing to me in any way, and won't affect tax. The only way in which I am at all affected is by having to take my car to a dealer to have it removed. Surely unless Seat incentivise me to do so, I shouldn't bother?
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Your car is spewing out 10x, 40x (whatever it is) more emissions. You can take it to a dealership and get it fixed. Why wouldn't you? Without going all hippy... we all have the breath in the stuff these cars chuck out.
 
Goksly said:
Your car is spewing out 10x, 40x (whatever it is) more emissions. You can take it to a dealership and get it fixed. Why wouldn't you? Without going all hippy... we all have the breath in the stuff these cars chuck out.
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But if it reduces MPG at the expense of improving emissions, then that's going to upset a lot of people.

MPGz are more important than air don't you know?
 
That's the thing, something is surely going to be affected as a result of this new software update - whether it's performance and/or fuel economy. It will be interesting to see but there must surely be some downside of having the fix installed.

Not that I'm trying to argue that people shouldn't bother, but I'm just curious as to what the side effects of the 'fix' will be.
 
Goksly said:
Your car is spewing out 10x, 40x (whatever it is) more emissions. You can take it to a dealership and get it fixed. Why wouldn't you? Without going all hippy... we all have the breath in the stuff these cars chuck out.
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I can't say this bothers me a great deal, plenty of fellow Leon owners have their engines remapped and their DPFs deleted, I consider myself pretty fair for leaving the car as it was sold to me...

Again, if it comes out that it will cost me no extra per year, and that they throw in a mini service or valet or something, I'll take it in. But taking it in on my own time and using my own money, for them to make a change that worsens the economy of the car? No thanks :(
 
Phemo said:
That's the thing, something is surely going to be affected as a result of this new software update - whether it's performance and/or fuel economy. It will be interesting to see but there must surely be some downside of having the fix installed.

Not that I'm trying to argue that people shouldn't bother, but I'm just curious as to what the side effects of the 'fix' will be.
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Lower resale value? Loss of warranty?
 
My cars affected by this!..:mad:

Am I concerned? only with the resale value of the car when I sell it next year which I doubt will change...but if it does take a hit, I'll know how Alfa Romeo owners feel! lol :D

At least isn't not a dangerous defect such as the 'dodge' accelerate issue Toyota had back in 2010 with 10 million cars!

Few extra emission? what's that? talked about over hyped lol :D
 
Six6siX said:
But if it reduces MPG at the expense of improving emissions, then that's going to upset a lot of people.

MPGz are more important than air don't you know?
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Surely the just take out the software that puts in into test mode, rather than introduce software that keeps it in test mode. So that would mean it produces the same emissions as it always has, apart from when it's being tested, so at worst might require a tweak of the MOT figures, but I doubt even that. It'll keep the same performance and economy, as you don't drive it in test mode.

I don't see what the big deal is. You will likely not see ANY change in the way the car drives or performs. But VW may well get a fine to cover the governments decreased VED take.
 
xs2man said:
Surely the just take out the software that puts in into test mode, rather than introduce software that keeps it in test mode. So that would mean it produces the same emissions as it always has, apart from when it's being tested, so at worst might require a tweak of the MOT figures, but I doubt even that. It'll keep the same performance and economy, as you don't drive it in test mode.

I don't see what the big deal is. You will likely not see ANY change in the way the car drives or performs. But VW may well get a fine to cover the governments decreased VED take.
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True, it could go either way but I suspect you're right and that all will happen is that the test conditions will be removed rather than improve the emissions.
 
The_Abyss said:
Lower resale value? Loss of warranty?
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Pretty sure the new owner would be happier having a car that costs less to run, not sure why this would hurt resale value? And there isn't a warranty to lose...

xs2man said:
Surely the just take out the software that puts in into test mode, rather than introduce software that keeps it in test mode. So that would mean it produces the same emissions as it always has, apart from when it's being tested, so at worst might require a tweak of the MOT figures, but I doubt even that. It'll keep the same performance and economy, as you don't drive it in test mode.

I don't see what the big deal is. You will likely not see ANY change in the way the car drives or performs. But VW may well get a fine to cover the governments decreased VED take.
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Not quite, VW are intending to add treatments to the exhaust/engine to reduce emissions down to a reasonable level, thus why everyone is talking about the MPG hit.

Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring...-Britons-face-extra-50-bill-after-recall.html

The Telegraph said:
New "after-treatment" systems flood the system with urea to separate nitrogen and oxygen particles before fumes are released into the atmosphere.
"Drivers could find themselves spending an extra £50 a year as a result," Mr De Nayer said."
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