• Competitor rules

    Please remember that any mention of competitors, hinting at competitors or offering to provide details of competitors will result in an account suspension. The full rules can be found under the 'Terms and Rules' link in the bottom right corner of your screen. Just don't mention competitors in any way, shape or form and you'll be OK.

VR - What are your thoughts?

I'm curious as to what you mean, here.

Give an example of a dedicated motion control for an isometric, turn-based game.

And please elaborate how an isometric, turn-based game would benefit from VR + motion controls.

I'm curious because, as I said before, the point of these games and RTS games is not "being there" or seeing from the PoV of a single unit. The point of these games is strategy, in the case of RTS lots of units with large-scale battles, where wasting time looking around from the PoV of your soldiers /will/ be a gimmick.

And in the case of party-based RPGs... well, you know that lately they've been going back to the traditional 2D painted background ala Baldur's Gate? Because the compelling part of these games isn't 3D, it's story-telling and strategic gameplay.

See if you'd just say that VR is going to revolutionise sims, I'd have no problem at all.

What bugs me is the 100% adherence that VR will be great for all genres. Yes, you conceded that it won't be used by everyone, but you still think there is room for VR in genres where it will do diddly squat. Like iso TBS, like RTS...

I wonder... do you see VR replacing television sets? Do you think at any point in the near future, people will want to don VR headsets instead of sitting in front of the telly?
What bugs you about VR seems to change from second to second. Obviously you've got some seriously strong feelings towards it.

As for how VR would improve RTS games - again man, you really need to try it to understand how the perspective change matters. I *cannot* convince you with words, obviously. For one, you've already got your mind made up and are actively looking to dismiss everything I say, so that already limits my persuasiveness. But for the sake of answering you anyways - no, the point of RTS games isn't immersion or anything. But that doesn't stop it from being incredibly awesome to see things play out like they're right there in front of you. It will be simply be a new and fresh way to experience something familiar.

In terms of controls, the ideas I've seen thrown around revolve around basically replicating mouse style pointer controls for designations, along with custom VR menu interfaces. Instead of dragging a box around some units with a mouse, you do it with a motion controller(even designating different groups with each of your hands at the same time). Doesn't sound special, but combined with your view of your actual units being like they're actually there in front of you, that action gains a lot more impact.

And with menu interfaces, man, it's a whole new world of possibilities. This is actually one of the most exciting things about VR, especially with motion controls. The potential is pretty ridiculous for how advanced you can get. Try and think like holographic interfaces you'd imagine in sci fi movies or something. Stuff like that. Having two hands could even mean split interfaces that allow you to navigate multiple menus with each of your hands, giving you speedy input methods that RTS's will often demand.

Surfaces are merely being scratched here. And whether you can imagine it or not, similar potential lies in all sorts of genres. Ones that you wouldn't necessarily immediately associate with VR, but could still be pretty great if worked properly. I'm not saying VR will take over these genres, but within VR, many of these genres can work.

In terms of your last question about VR replacing TV's, I answered that already in a previous response to you. Since you obviously haven't been reading what I've been saying very carefully, no, of course VR wont replace TV's. Like I said before, TV's did not replace radios and VR will not replace TV's. It is a new medium, not an evolution of an existing one. But there may come a day where a combined VR/AR capabilities do replace our standard flat, physical TV's. That's way in the future, though.

You seem to want to pin me as this stereotype you've dreamed up that claims VR will be everything and do everything. I've been going out of my way to assure you that isn't the case. VR will not completely take over gaming or entertainment or anything anytime remotely soon. And that's good. I wouldn't want it to in it's current state and form factor. I will not always want to wear a HMD to play a game or watch TV for various different reasons. And I think most all VR enthusiasts would agree with that. You seem to have this habit of exaggerating what people are saying or what their stance is for whatever reason.

But I definitely think VR will carve a very relevant place in modern culture. I don't think it'll explode out the gates next year and be smartphone big within a year, but I do think it's going to be popular and more and more people are going to understand what the fuss is about, proving a lot of preconceived notions wrong. And it will have a wide range of applications that should allow most people to find some useful or entertaining way to enjoy it eventually.
 
Last edited:
Foxeye, VR in it's current form shows a lot of promise. Much more so than the VR of the 90's, as we are real close with the technology than we have ever been before.

We will never get to what you are looking for i.e. Holodecks and "The Matrix" without these first tiny steps into the VR world. If everyone had your attitude we would still be running around in loincloths with flint axes.

Chill out, let the tech evolve and be prepared to be amazed....no matter how long it takes to get to your high standards before you will even put on a headset.

I still cant believe there are people out there who are into computers and tech and are not excited about trying it out. I have never had the oppotunity to have a go with an OR or Vive....But I for one would jump at the chance to have a go.

I can remember the first time I jumped off the waterfall in Farcry and the first time I saw the T-Rex in the original Tomb Raider, Alien Isolation would certainly **** you up for sure.......Can you imagine all that within a VR environment. ;)

It could be amazing.....it will take time to perfect.....The USA didnt get to the moon in five minutes....VR is such a small concept in relation to travelling to the moon.

Live a little and imagine :D
 
I tried the dk 2 for about 2 hours in elite and the most epic thing that came out of it was my headache. That was just from the horrible resolution. I did get a tingle down my spine when i boosted round a station on thrusters and docked. With a hotas,it felt natural and pretty amazing. The resolution atm just killed it for me.
 
Foxeye, VR in it's current form shows a lot of promise. Much more so than the VR of the 90's, as we are real close with the technology than we have ever been before.

We will never get to what you are looking for i.e. Holodecks and "The Matrix" without these first tiny steps into the VR world. If everyone had your attitude we would still be running around in loincloths with flint axes.

Chill out, let the tech evolve and be prepared to be amazed....no matter how long it takes to get to your high standards before you will even put on a headset.

I still cant believe there are people out there who are into computers and tech and are not excited about trying it out. I have never had the oppotunity to have a go with an OR or Vive....But I for one would jump at the chance to have a go.

I can remember the first time I jumped off the waterfall in Farcry and the first time I saw the T-Rex in the original Tomb Raider, Alien Isolation would certainly **** you up for sure.......Can you imagine all that within a VR environment. ;)

It could be amazing.....it will take time to perfect.....The USA didnt get to the moon in five minutes....VR is such a small concept in relation to travelling to the moon.

Live a little and imagine :D

Well, that's the other thing.

Most of us don't even have the opportunity to try it. Unless you go to an expo, which will be somewhere in London or Manchester, then for now there is no way to try VR anyhow.

I don't know anyone who has tried it. Nobody I know even talks about it. It's not available to most people, even to demo. Given how sceptical I am I'm not wasting money on a trip to London either :p
 
VR in a sense, applied to games of today, won't work well other than for the games which use a fixed reference like Elite Dangerous, iRacing etc.

What will happen though is that as it catches on and I think Sony's Playstation VR will help massively with mass market appeal with the bulk of high tech advancements being on the PC side. Games over the next few years will drastically change in order to adapt for VR and how we play them will also change.

I tried VR in the 90's and even thought it had some uses then, but this new wave of stuff even on a mobile phone is a million times better.
 
Well, that's the other thing.

Most of us don't even have the opportunity to try it. Unless you go to an expo, which will be somewhere in London or Manchester, then for now there is no way to try VR anyhow.

I don't know anyone who has tried it. Nobody I know even talks about it. It's not available to most people, even to demo. Given how sceptical I am I'm not wasting money on a trip to London either :p
Seeing you live in Cornwall and all, that is a legitimate issue, no doubt. But I reckon that even if you're not there for Day 1, at some point within the next couple years, you will have some opportunity to try out VR, or at *least* know somebody personally who has impressions to give you.

Given your presence on the internet, I think you'll find a lot more impressions and information there, though. Word of mouth used to be a literal word of mouth phenomenon, but now it is spread digitally more than it is through actual physical person to person communication. Hopefully there will be retail presence to make this a non-issue, but even if that doesn't happen, I can only hope that positive impressions at least give you a more optimistic outlook on the technology.

Frankly, I'm giddy at the prospect of VR being in the hands of tons of new people. If I didn't believe in it, I'd be anxious or worried. But I'm reasonably confident once consumer headsets come out, there are going to be a ton of floors that need fixing due to dropped jaws. :)
 
VR looks awesome, that Portal demo looked amazing to me. bad thing for me is I have the most sensitive eyes in the world, i.e couldn't handle a 32" monitor, sitting with that on desk with PC literally made me sick. No doubt VR would destroy me after a few minutes :P

Looks amazing, not sure if my eyes could handle it..
 
Hey guys, if VR can't work with every single genre of game, or input method, we have to abandon it. K? Once done, we have to **** on it and say I told you so to all the enthusiasts.

I think that raises an interesting point. What sort of saturation level does something (such as VR) need to achieve before it's considered more than a novelty peripheral?
In my opinion on the PC flightsticks and steering wheels are probably still in the novelty (or niche) area. Gamepads however are probably utilised enough to not be considered novelty/niche anymore.

I think the other thing is that there are likely to be very few games that are VR exclusives due to the competitively low market share (I'd imagine). So it seems to me that most VR games will also need to work perfectly well in 2D. I then have to wonder how many games can really make use of it for a beneficial reason other than 'because they can'. It'll take more than Football Manager getting VR so I can now watch the games from the sideline for me to be tempted.

As I think I've mentioned, I have tried a friends Oculus for a bit. I tried Elite a few VR demos and Alien Isolation. Nothing there made me want to get an Oculus of my own. In fact it probably put me off. If they release it for under £50 then I MAY be tempted if there's support in the games I play, but I'm not going to change the games I play and buy games just because it has VR support. I maintain that I play games for the gameplay and not the graphics.

I tried 3D gaming and wasn't impressed and I'm not really any more impressed by the Oculus DK2.

Also the resolution on the DK2 is really bad, combined with not being able to use my glasses it made things very hard to read.
 
I maintain that I play games for the gameplay and not the graphics.
That's great, because VR is not about improving graphics. In fact, you will probably have to sacrifice graphics in order to play in VR.

And apart from existing games that get rudimentary add-on VR support, there is a ton of potential for new gameplay ideas that are only possible within VR.

It's been a popular idea that VR is just some new way of looking at something, but it really opens up motion controls to be *far* more impactful than they ever were before, and something that truly changes how something is played. And something not often realized is that your head becomes a replacement for a right analog stick. Your head becomes an input method. Leaving a gamepad-controlled VR experience to have that stick provide some new functionality that wasn't possible before. That's low hanging fruit, but it would still absolutely change the way somebody plays a game.

EDIT: Also, DK2 does indeed make it very difficult to wear glasses. That isn't the case for CV1, Vive or Morpheus, though. This was a priority for them.
 
Last edited:
That's great, because VR is not about improving graphics. In fact, you will probably have to sacrifice graphics in order to play in VR.

And apart from existing games that get rudimentary add-on VR support, there is a ton of potential for new gameplay ideas that are only possible within VR.

It's been a popular idea that VR is just some new way of looking at something, but it really opens up motion controls to be *far* more impactful than they ever were before, and something that truly changes how something is played. And something not often realized is that your head becomes a replacement for a right analog stick. Your head becomes an input method. Leaving a gamepad-controlled VR experience to have that stick provide some new functionality that wasn't possible before. That's low hanging fruit, but it would still absolutely change the way somebody plays a game.

EDIT: Also, DK2 does indeed make it very difficult to wear glasses. That isn't the case for CV1, Vive or Morpheus, though. This was a priority for them.

It is a visual/graphical thing though.
Also, making games that are only possible on VR will have to be someone that's looking for a very low number of sales, which is going to have to be a dedicated developer/publisher.
 
It is a visual/graphical thing though.
Also, making games that are only possible on VR will have to be someone that's looking for a very low number of sales, which is going to have to be a dedicated developer/publisher.
Alright, let me ask you, would you be fine switching from a 24"+ monitor to a 15" monitor? Cuz even if that doesn't effect the actual graphics, it still has a pretty profound effect on the presentation of the video game. VR takes that **** to a whole new level. It is unique and captivating in a way that seeing something on a flat display just can't be.

And you have a point about making games that are only possible in VR. The marketability of these games is far more difficult. But I also think it's pretty obvious that we wouldn't be seeing giant AAA titles purely dedicated to VR anytime soon. And that is not a bad thing. Indie developers have more freedom and are less afraid to take creative risks, which VR needs.

Either way, unless you're picky about what you're interested in, I think launch lineups for this initial wave of VR look to be extremely strong, with a combination of either well-worked existing games with VR support or built-for-VR games. I'd say it's actually stronger than either the PS4 or XB1 launched with.
 
Alright, let me ask you, would you be fine switching from a 24"+ monitor to a 15" monitor? Cuz even if that doesn't effect the actual graphics, it still has a pretty profound effect on the presentation of the video game. VR takes that **** to a whole new level. It is unique and captivating in a way that seeing something on a flat display just can't be.

And you have a point about making games that are only possible in VR. The marketability of these games is far more difficult. But I also think it's pretty obvious that we wouldn't be seeing giant AAA titles purely dedicated to VR anytime soon. And that is not a bad thing. Indie developers have more freedom and are less afraid to take creative risks, which VR needs.

Either way, unless you're picky about what you're interested in, I think launch lineups for this initial wave of VR look to be extremely strong, with a combination of either well-worked existing games with VR support or built-for-VR games. I'd say it's actually stronger than either the PS4 or XB1 launched with.

No, going from a 24" to a 15" wouldn't bother me, my laptop is a 15" display, it's not going to change how the game plays.

I don't tend to like indie games (there are exceptions, obviously, FTL for example). Also don't like driving games or flight/space sims as a rule. There are a few FPS games I like, but generally few and far between. I guess most games I like are a sorta top-down view or 3rd person. Sporta games can be ok and 2D fighting games (don't like 3D ones, except wresting/mma type ones). So yeah, can be sorta picky.
 
Call me back when we have a Holodeck or contact lenses style VR..

This type of VR at the moment is like 3D Anaglyph Stereo Glasses years ago to now Active Shuffer 3D, both really dead in the water and will remain dead in the water because of the fact you have to wear a pair of glasses and have content that is specific to it.

VR is like 3D sadly a fad that will come and go as did 3D but no one really wants it for daily use. I can see a few cases for its use like:-

3D modeling of environments

product prototyping

training pilots or military

medical type device for maybe key hole surgery or remote surgery.



Gaming it could be fun but have a feeling it will go the same way as 3D gaming..


Holodeck type technology is really where it will be at, when you can set your living room or any space to a virtual world.
 
Do you think this is even fixable? What if it's a fundamental problem that can't be overcome with higher refresh rate, more resolution...

What if the sickness is entirely due to the conflicting inputs coming to your brain... ie your eyes see one thing, your inner ear and other senses tell you another.

Some people will /never/ be able to read on a train (bus/car). They have to look out the window. Because when they look down at their book their eyes tell them they aren't moving but their body can sense the movement. Hence sickness. Clearly that's not a problem with refresh rates or anything!

This could literally be such a big issue that VR is a non-starter for many gamers.

I get motion sickness too so this is a big worry for me but from talking to someone who has used both, they were getting motion sickness with Oculus but none with Steam VR. I think he said it was because they use lasers instead of the camera so everything is exactly where you would expect it to be, less lag etc.
 
Just got back from the NEC, had a chance to try the Vive on 2 games.

Elite Dangerous andCrystal Rift all of which were great. BUT.

ED, I could clearly see pixels when I put the headset on, but as I played that soon vanished and I was immersed to the point where I actually felt like I was in the cockpit, it looked fantastic and the sense of scale was incredible.

Crystal Rift which was being demo'd as a standing experience, which by the way also showed off the Vive's incredible multiplayer possibilities (4 headsets being tracked by 2 light house boxes), for me the visuals were very clear, I couldnt see the pixels, I felt like I was standing there in a corridor, which is great, it's what you want BUT it was let down by the controls, an xbox pad, moving with the thumb stick felt disorientating to me and it took me some time to get used that, when I was finished I felt a little off which I wasn't expecting.

On the bases of those 2 games, I will still be buying the moment I can, the Elite Dangerous experience alone was worth the 380 mile drive.
 
Back
Top Bottom