Wayne Rooney banned for three England Euro 2012 matches

Dalglish was also quizzed about his views on the FA's successful appeal that means Wayne Rooney's England ban has been reduced two-matches.


He added: "I don't think it sets a very good standard that they appeal against Wayne's three-match ban. I think it calls into question their own disciplinary system.
"It's understandable because Wayne is a fantastic footballer, but it's not as if it was a 50/50 challenge he got sent off for, is it? If it's a straight red, it's three games (suspension), so I don't know how they justify diluting it.
"If they can justify diluting Wayne's, then everybody else that appeals for a similar sending off in a Premier League game would expect to have their ban reduced. It's great news for England that their best player is going to be available for their last game, but I don't think it sets a very good precedent for everybody else."


A perfectly valid opinion really.
 
I think it's worth noting that the FA presented Rooney's case under UEFA rules, not their own. They would have been stupid not to at least try it.

This doesn't mean they have to change their own rules because they didn't apply in this instance.
 
Dalglish was also quizzed about his views on the FA's successful appeal that means Wayne Rooney's England ban has been reduced two-matches.


He added: "I don't think it sets a very good standard that they appeal against Wayne's three-match ban. I think it calls into question their own disciplinary system.
"It's understandable because Wayne is a fantastic footballer, but it's not as if it was a 50/50 challenge he got sent off for, is it? If it's a straight red, it's three games (suspension), so I don't know how they justify diluting it.
"If they can justify diluting Wayne's, then everybody else that appeals for a similar sending off in a Premier League game would expect to have their ban reduced. It's great news for England that their best player is going to be available for their last game, but I don't think it sets a very good precedent for everybody else."


A perfectly valid opinion really.
That's possibly one of the stupidest things I've ever heard a manager say. Kenny's against the idea of an appeals system. In life, or just football?

"everybody else that appeals for a similar sending off in a Premier League game would expect to have their ban reduced"

Yes Kenny, because the whole point of appeals panels is to issue blanket rules across the board, not look at individual cases and mitigating factors (and so forth). Baffling.
 
I thought the main reason the FA felt they could appeal was due to previous cases being 2-match bans (eg: Arshavin), rather than the 3 issued to Rooney.

I can't imagine Capello saying "it's ok, leave it". He'd have been hopping mad if the FA didn't at least try.

/edit: For the record, I'm completely fine with it.

It's not as if Chelsea are competing against Poland under FA/UEFA rules. There's one set of rules by which teams compete in the PL, and another set by UEFA. If you have a team competing against other teams who also abide by the same rules, you're not going to work by your own rules which are completely irrelevant for the competition you're in.
 
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Yes Kenny, because the whole point of appeals panels is to issue blanket rules across the board, not look at individual cases and mitigating factors (and so forth). Baffling.

So, what do you think of HR comments then?

HarryRedknapp said:
"You can look at it and say it wasn't that violent, but it doesn't matter. If you cuff someone, you get a three-match ban. Those are the rules.

"If you appealed it (domestically), it would be a frivolous appeal and you would probably get four games if you went to the FA."

They are similar comments to those expressed by Liverpool boss Dalglish yesterday, and Redknapp now expects the FA to be besieged with appeals for domestic red cards.

"For them to get it from three to two, it opens up a can of worms," he said.

"There will be clubs appealing against bans and they will want to know why they aren't getting it cut from three to two for similar situations.

"People will look at it and think, 'Hang on, the FA have gone and appealed against his (Rooney's) red, why can't we?'

"From England's point of view, I'm pleased to see him get two because he's that important to England, but in all honesty, the rules are supposed to be the rules and they have not been adhered to in this situation."
 
Yes Kenny, because the whole point of appeals panels is to issue blanket rules across the board, not look at individual cases and mitigating factors (and so forth). Baffling.

You do realise that's exactly what's he's giving the FA stick over? The FA punish violent conduct with a fixed 3 match ban whether it's a bit of handbags or a proper punch in the face.

How can the FA stand by that (and increase bans when people appeal) when they appeal UEFA's ban?
This doesn't mean they have to change their own rules because they didn't apply in this instance.

If they don't then they're hypocrites. The FA believe all violent conduct is a 3 match ban. If they believe that then by appealing Rooney's ban they're going directly against their own beliefs. If they don't believe it then change the rules here.

It's like a politician campaigning against increasing the motorway speed limit to 80mph on the grounds of safety and then popping over to Germany and driving 150mph on the autobahns. They've broken no laws but it would be a bit hypocritical.
 
If they don't then they're hypocrites. The FA believe all violent conduct is a 3 match ban. If they believe that then by appealing Rooney's ban they're going directly against their own beliefs. If they don't believe it then change the rules here.

It's like a politician campaigning against increasing the motorway speed limit to 80mph on the grounds of safety and then popping over to Germany and driving 150mph on the autobahns. They've broken no laws but it would be a bit hypocritical.

Yes, you can call them hypocritical, but they are in charge of the England team so they are the people that have to lead the appeal.

They were well within their rights to do so and it was absolutely worth them trying.
 
You do realise that's exactly what's he's giving the FA stick over? The FA punish violent conduct with a fixed 3 match ban whether it's a bit of handbags or a proper punch in the face.

How can the FA stand by that (and increase bans when people appeal) when they appeal UEFA's ban?


If they don't then they're hypocrites. The FA believe all violent conduct is a 3 match ban. If they believe that then by appealing Rooney's ban they're going directly against their own beliefs. If they don't believe it then change the rules here.

It's like a politician campaigning against increasing the motorway speed limit to 80mph on the grounds of safety and then popping over to Germany and driving 150mph on the autobahns. They've broken no laws but it would be a bit hypocritical.

No, it wouldn't, it would be the equivalent of getting a ticket here for doing 90mph, then getting a ticket in germany for 120mph, then appealing and them realising he wasn't speeding and cancelling the ticket.

Its quite simple under FA rules violent conduct is a 3 match ban, if you appeal it, the vast majority of players who get a ban for violent conduct get a 3 match ban. UEFA rules ARE different and most players apparently DO NOT get a 3 match ban, similar rule breaking has often resulted in a 2 match ban.

The equivalent is Suarez getting a ban for violent conduct and being given a 4 or 5 match ban, then Liverpool would appeal and say, 99% of other times the player has only gotten 3 match ban.


FA rules, competitions, previous bans are entirely irrelevant, England are playing in a completely different competition and the only thing that matters is consistency in the rules in THAT competition.


if someone now appeals based on the FA's appeal to Uefa and asks for a two match ban they will quite simply, and rightly reply, yes a 2 match ban is standard, under Uefa rules for THAT competition, the standard ban in THIS competition is 3 matchs.

There isn't any confusion, there shouldn't be an in the increase in the number of appeals and should anyone try to they will get extended bans for stupid appeals.

Now if the standard and all recent cases under UEFA did get a 3 match ban, the FA would be stupid to appeal, as clubs under the FA would be about a domestic 3 game ban, but if your player got a 5 game ban for something you've only ever seen a 3 game ban for...... what would your club do, appeal, that's right.


Dalglish just wants to complain about the FA, he only ever talks about the woeful decisions his team has had all season, when 85-90% of the ones he mentions after every loss, are rubbish. The next loss he'll mention the ever growing number of poor decisions and you can be sure the Spearing one will be included, despite the fact it was the clearest red card of the weekend in the EPL.

Ultimately this whole thing is actually painfully stupid, Liverpool hold the right to appeal to the FA for domestic bans, in those circumstances the FA are the law makers and Liverpool the team "manager" under Uefa for England the FA are the team "manager" and have the same rights Liverpool do.

DO the FA prevent Liverpool making appeals, but the FA shouldn't have the same right in another competition, because Dalglish says so? its like having a go at prosecution lawyer who has spent his life putting criminals away, but dares to use a defence lawyer when he is charged with murder. Everyone has a right to a defence, and that includes the England team and in those circumstances the FA act as the owner/manger of the England team and NOT as the lawful body of another competition.

Don't forget, while its not encouraged Liverpool have every right to appeal ANY decision, however frivolous, and there are consequences, yet Dalglish apparently things the FA/England should not have this right also, its not surprising, Dalglish things penalties that aren't penalties should be given just because he is the Liverpool manager, and red cards shouldn't be red cards, because its Liverpool.

And lastly, Redknapp, biggest fool around one day after Tevez incident something along the lines of "string him up by his nads and stone him to death", okay I think something closer to "Its terrible init, he's a disgrace, players like that have no place in the game, ban him from England, make sure he never plays again".

Couple weeks later "Sure I'd take Tevez, who wouldn't, great player, love to have him at Spurs but we can't afford him".


Redknapp.......... media whore, if there is some story going on he jumps infront of a camera agreeing with everyone else, and two weeks later he's got an entirely new take on the situation.
 
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That's basically what I was going to say, so good post DM. Crimes committed in different countries carry different punishments, and the same can be said for football. It doesn't make the FA hypocritical for appealing if they play by the rules of another competition.
 
Yes, you can call them hypocritical, but they are in charge of the England team so they are the people that have to lead the appeal.

They were well within their rights to do so and it was absolutely worth them trying.

I don't think that's been questioned. It's put them in a difficult position with English League clubs though and raises the question as to how the FA can continue to hand out fixed 3 match bans.

Ultimately the decision to appeal would have been made by Capello and he doesn't give a **** about the FA's stance on these matters and the consequences that will come about because of the appeal.

That's basically what I was going to say, so good post DM. Crimes committed in different countries carry different punishments, and the same can be said for football. It doesn't make the FA hypocritical for appealing if they play by the rules of another competition.

It makes you a hypocrite to appeal a decision you believe was correct (they'd have banned him for 3 games after all) just because UEFA's rules allow them too.
 
Well, not really. The FA have explained their stance on suspensions and it differs from that of UEFA:

"To promote speed and consistency, stakeholders in England agreed a standard formula encompassing a fixed penalty sanction should be applied across the game by the FA.

"The FA's system allows clubs to make a claim of wrongful dismissal - to reduce a sanction to zero - or appeal the severity of a sanction, both of these processes are dealt with prior to the player's next fixture.

"Uefa chooses to operate a different process for European matches, based on a sliding scale, under which each sanction is determined individually by a disciplinary panel."

The FA's point was that Rooney was handed a 3 game ban for an offence similar to one which Arshavin was given 2 games for. As the above highlights, there are no set suspensions for red card offences in UEFA games and the Rooney ban did not reflect the precedent which had been previously set. Rooney was not charged with a specific offence as he would have been in the FA's system because UEFA take each case on its own merits - arguably the better option, although it creates a lot of extra work.

It's also worth pointing out that UEFA punishments should be lesser in severity anyway to those laid down by the FA because, relatively speaking, a 3 game ban in a 6 match tournament is far more significant than a 3 game ban in a 50+ game season.
 
"... to promote speed and consistency...." is also a key phrase in that sentence. UEFA have much longer to make their decision than the FA do.
 
That's not true. How long have the Suarez and Terry incidents been going on for? And all other FA appeals are usually dealt with within a week or so anyway.
Well, not really. The FA have explained their stance on suspensions and it differs from that of UEFA:

The FA's point was that Rooney was handed a 3 game ban for an offence similar to one which Arshavin was given 2 games for. As the above highlights, there are no set suspensions for red card offences in UEFA games and the Rooney ban did not reflect the precedent which had been previously set. Rooney was not charged with a specific offence as he would have been in the FA's system because UEFA take each case on its own merits - arguably the better option, although it creates a lot of extra work.

It's also worth pointing out that UEFA punishments should be lesser in severity anyway to those laid down by the FA because, relatively speaking, a 3 game ban in a 6 match tournament is far more significant than a 3 game ban in a 50+ game season.


I think you're missing the point.

We all know UEFA's system is different and nobody is saying the FA weren't within their rights to appeal (and I think we all agree that UEFA's system is better in this respect) however.... the FA choose to punish all forms of violent conduct with a 3 game ban so if they believe that's the correct punishment it's hypocritical of them to appeal a decision they agree with. As I said right at the start of this debate, when Utd appealed Ferdinand's 3 game ban based on Gerrard getting away with a similar thing, the FA gave him an extra 1 game.

As for the last part, that's just the luck of the draw. Rooney could have been suspended for 3 meaningless qualifiers where we may have already qualified, just like a player in England could miss a first round game in the CC Cup against a lower division side or they could miss the FA Cup final. You punish somebody based on their actions not the timing of it.
 
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