Soldato
- Joined
- 1 May 2003
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- 11,188
Well all know that the game will never be replayed. I think the only thing that might happen is that Henry should get a 5 match ban for unsporting conduct.
*** Weekend Football - 14th / 15th ***
- Thread starter Azza
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Soldato
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
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Just saw this too - wait while I gather my breath a minute...it happens *ALL* the time, they play right on the edge, late hits, pass interference, early starts, blocking, grabbing jerseys, you name it, it happens - sometimes they get away with it, sometimes they don't - watch more than 'now and again' and even *with* video replays there is still tons of analysis on whether the ref made the right call, whether a player 'cheated' to get an unfair advantage. The idea that video replays stop cheating is laughable
SOrry but thats just stupid, late hits and grabbing the odd Jersey firstly AREN'T in the same league as a deliberate handball to score a goal, or diving for a penalty. Late hits, holding, offsides aren't really "cheating", they are a natural thing, someones running at someone to tackle, sometimes they can't stop, sometimes they don't hear the end of the play, sometimes they simply can't change direction and sometimes they just want to hit the guy, its akin to a basic foul in football, its not even close to the same level as a massive game changing cheating situation.
The "major" actual cheating in American football simply isn't there, most of the replays we see getting used are for catches made by players diving and rolling while they catch often when genuinely the player himself, upside down an inch off the ground isn't quite sure if he got the ball before it touches the ground.
Deliberate handballs, dives, shirt tugging someone to the floor would all be incredibly obvious on video replay, and because it would get caught every time, all DELIBERATE GAME CHANGING CHEATING, would simply stop. All tugging shirts in boxes at corners would stop, diving would stop, handballs leading to either goals or giving penalties would stop. YEs the things will still happen now and then, because accidental handballs still get penaltys, the difference is, they'll be seen on replay and the penalty fairly given.
It won't stop fouls being given and I never said it would, fouls often aren't intentional, lots of fouls like two people going for the same ball, are unintentional fouls, that isn't deliberate cheating though, get over it. Use some common sense and see the difference between the kind of cheating that Maradona, unfortunately now Henry and others do to change games directly, and a few fouls throughout the game.
What I find funny is the reaction, like Ireland have never cheated in their lives and this doesn't happen, that Ireland didn't pull a shirt, or grab a players foot as he went past the keeper, let alone cheat in other games, all teams do it. As said had it happened the other way theres no way in hell Keane would have thrown away world cup qualification and owned up to doing the same thing, most wouldn't when its the "normal" thing.
Can't remember which Scottish player it was the other day who said he'd certainly cheat to get into a world cup.
Someone who wrote into footie 365 seems to think Ireland against Spain in a previous World cup involved Spain having a good goal dissallowed and Duff blantantly diving for a penalty. Personally I can't recall if that happened or not, others might, if that did happen, then Ireland literally don't have a leg to stand on.
Likewise had this happened to England and we didn't go to the world cup I do believe most scottish, Irish and Welsh people would laugh their asses off over it. I'm not laughing, but I have no sympathy for them just because they're pretending they've never cheated in their lives. All thats happened is they haven't benefited as greatly from their cheating in recent times(except maybe not conceding that penalty, which might have been given if two extra linesmen were up and one saw the Given contact on Anelka).
I don't like people over reacting to Eduardo's dive, or Henry's incredibly rare cheating, and pretending it doesn't happen ALL GAME LONG in a variety of ways from most players largely because its completely and utterly stupid.
EDIT:- Personally I don't like cheating but am not a complete moron there will be times every team does it, and even though a players has dived before they'll appeal for a foul/freekick/penalty when someone from another team does it in a different game, hell in the same game. I understand that, what I can't stand is this utterly pathetic moral indignation and crusade people go on after games. This is as pathetic as Celtics outrage over Eduardo's dive, which had little effect on the game, and their utter disgust with cheating. Lots of Celtic players cheat, the next week the biggest loudmouth over the Eduardo incident got two yellows for two separate dives.
Likewise I can understand Ireland being miffed they went out over that goal, but this utter crap about replays, the hanging out of Henry etc, after the game, when pretty much every single player in that team has cheated in other games, is beyond me. Keane, Duff, they've dived before, they've dived multiple times and asked for penalties, they've cheated, to pretend this is somehow worse, morally different and act like they've never cheated really gets on my goat.
France were by far the better team in extra time, massively so, Ireland weren't a goal up weren't going through without this goal as some people seem to think, and frankly while France's team isn't clicking, when it comes to the quality of the team and who was on the pitch, I couldn't remotely see them not winning on penalties if they didn't score in extra time.
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Sure, if there was currently a video referall system, obviously Henry wouldn't have done what he done last night because he would have been caught out with the video replay.
But I do wonder how many people in here criticising Henry would have done the same in that situation.
I disagree that there should be video replay technology.
Personally, Henry cheating last night wasn't the sole reason France eventually won over the two legs.
Looking at that gif it is actually quite amazing how the human brain can evaluate all the permutations on the fly in that instance. You can see how in the gap between the ball bouncing up he has decided he is going to hand ball it and in order to do that he has to stick his arm out, but also in that fraction of a second he's decided to intentionally maintain a "floppy hand". I imagine the thought that if it looked like he didn't tense his hand up then it might look like it just bounced off him. I go so far as to say he was thinking of the post match repercutions even as he was doing it, hence "not guilty guv, floppy hand, see?". Of course the massive arm movement kind of gives it away and totaly udermines his post match it just hit me defence, but it just goes to show how quick the human brain is.
Soldato
I'm sorry but how on earth is it the same and a handball? The blood incident was a pre determined plan to cheat, where as this was a spur of the moment thing. Totally different.
A 5 game ban for what in the game would have a been a yellow card... All because the linesman/ref didn't see it.
I seem to remember Robbie Fowler diving for a penalty at Highbury some years ago. He told the ref, he still gave the penalty. Fowler, could (and maybe should) have passed it back/missed he didn't he scored. Players cheat.
Pretty much everyone would do it until such time as the available deterrent would make them think twice. Since deterrants in place are nowhere near robust enough, pretty much everyone would do it.
If that situation happened to Scotland, I think I would be more mad at the Scottish players defending at the free kick than Henry cheating.
Even if it does sound bizarre, it's the old story of playing to the whistle, and by the look of it some Irish players stopped waiting for the ref to blow for a free kick to them.
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And yet there are other sportsmen and women who would not have stooped so low. There is no integrity in football.
Soldato
Like?
Caporegime
Nope I wouldn't, but I'm not a **** I wouldn't cheat in the first place. I could go around downloading aimbots and other hacks for video games, do I? No, because I'm not a ****. Saying that it's down to the ref is just stupid. Well we might as well teach all players to cheat and hope the ref doesn't see it then? In fact if I ever have a son, I'll make diving and faking injury the second thing I teach him after passing I think
LOL and whos to say Henry is a cheat??..he didnt set out to cheat ie oh let me handball the ball so we can score..it was an unfortunate incident that he found himself in...but hey you carry on harping about how much of a cheat Henry is...you cant prove that he cheated...just like no one could prove Eduardo dived/simulated or whatever it was against Celtic a few mths ago.
It is down to the ref and the linesmen..get your head out of your backside for a second and put your hatred for Henry to one side
...if the ref and linesmen were doing their jobs correctly then there wouldnt be this big uproar and the goal would have never stood.Hes admitted as much to handballing the ball but as i keep saying its not his job to say anything...i personally think he should have but he didnt and i dont think any player would have themselves if they knew their places at the WC were under threat. Do you honestly think if the shoe was on the other foot ie Keane handballed the ball...you think he would have said anything...**** no lol...everyones making a big deal about it because its France...if France got knocked out via a handball goal then i can guarantee that no one would say anything or make an almighty uproar about it.
Lets face facts here...Ireland should have defended better...if anything the irish defenders are at blame here simple as that.
And LMAO @ Brian Jensen of Burnley saying Henry got away with murder...i mean really has he??....better call the police and get him arrested
.Anyhow what goes around comes around...i dont expect the French to do very well at the WC anyways...they are a shoddy team since that Domenech took over...watch this will come and bite them back on the ass.
Caporegime
Oh would you listen to what you're saying? He's admitted to cheating! If I commit fraud and get away with it is that fine as well? I didn't do anything wrong, the authorities should have stopped me?
You quite clearly have a blinkered view of this because of your feelings towards the player, I don't 'hate' Henry at all, the fact that you're suggesting that shows that your argument is flawed.
He didn't score, he missed
As to whether he dived or not, that's open for debate. Why dive to win a penalty and when you get it, tell the referee it's not one? Kind of defeats the point.
Maybe he regretted the dive straight away? Or something like that.
I always find it a bit funny when something like this happens, all the Irish players are now painted as the pillars of fair play. I don't know about the rest of the players but Damien Duff is one of the worst divers I've ever seen at Newcastle including the likes of Ginola. So he's got a cheek to bang on about cheating.
I always find it a bit funny when something like this happens, all the Irish players are now painted as the pillars of fair play. I don't know about the rest of the players but Damien Duff is one of the worst divers I've ever seen at Newcastle including the likes of Ginola. So he's got a cheek to bang on about cheating.
Firstly, he missed.
Secondly, he didn't dive, he went round Seaman and stumbled. It was neither a dive nor a foul, something which everyone, including refs, seem less and less inclined to believe in nowadays.
Caporegime
Indeed, I remember when Tomasson got booked when he just fell over, didn;t try and claim a penalty or anything, ridiculous.
How do you manage to constantly make such long posts about things? Id imagine you could make a thirty page novel about the last dump you took.
Associate
While I think it is safe to say a blueprint of a hand touching a ball with 'ZIS IS HOW I WILL CHEAT LOL' written on the back won't be found in Henry's kitbag (and thank you for that observation by the way), it doesn't change the fact that within a 95% certainty Henry purposefully altered the flight of the ball to his advantage with his hand which directly led to a goal. What makes the act purposeful isn't pre-meditation beforehand, or Henry admitting he 'meant' it, it's that you can observe his hand and arm muscles tensing as they moved towards the ball in such a manner that could not realistically be defended as natural or accidental movements. This is the act of cheating, and it does not require officials to label it as such. As said above, a crime is still a crime regardless of whether the State catches you or not.LOL and whos to say Henry is a cheat??..he didnt set out to cheat ie oh let me handball the ball so we can score..it was an unfortunate incident that he found himself in...but hey you carry on harping about how much of a cheat Henry is...you cant prove that he cheated...just like no one could prove Eduardo dived/simulated or whatever it was against Celtic a few mths ago.
It is down to the ref and the linesmen..get your head out of your backside for a second and put your hatred for Henry to one side
Hes admitted as much to handballing the ball but as i keep saying its not his job to say anything...i personally think he should have but he didnt and i dont think any player would have themselves if they knew their places at the WC were under threat. Do you honestly think if the shoe was on the other foot ie Keane handballed the ball...you think he would have said anything...**** no lol...everyones making a big deal about it because its France...if France got knocked out via a handball goal then i can guarantee that no one would say anything or make an almighty uproar about it.
Lets face facts here...Ireland should have defended better...if anything the irish defenders are at blame here simple as that.
And please speak for yourself when telling onlookers what they would and wouldn't do in Henry's position, as firstly you obviously have no idea and secondly the idea 'everyone does it anyway' doesn't detract from the morality of the original act.
Obviously the Irish could've defended better, had five players marking Henry for that passage of play, controlled their own destiny, etc etc, but that sort of sentiment being used to defer in any way from Henry's act just reeks of remarking 'well why were you wearing a short skirt then' to a rape victim.
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Take his mates in the Gillette adverts for starters. You don't see Federer or Woods using their hands, illegally, to keep the ball in do you?
Caporegime
I thought Ireland played very well in the first half, France came back in to it towards the end of the second half and imo, extra time was really just one way traffic.
I feel sorry for Ireland, going out like that, after playing very well wasn't right.
I thought Anelka had a very good game, and showed real class right up until the last few minutes.
Yep, t'was a handball, it should have been picked up on (linesman should have been able to have a decent view). Don't blame the player, all footballers try and gain an advantage, on another day he'd have been caught.
On another day, Keane would have finished one of the sitters he had.
I feel sorry for Ireland, going out like that, after playing very well wasn't right.
I thought Anelka had a very good game, and showed real class right up until the last few minutes.
Yep, t'was a handball, it should have been picked up on (linesman should have been able to have a decent view). Don't blame the player, all footballers try and gain an advantage, on another day he'd have been caught.
On another day, Keane would have finished one of the sitters he had.