Weekend Football 21/22 & 23rd ***SPOILERS***

[atpbx]

Could you please explain to me what was nonsensical about my post? And if you could tell me without insulting me it would be great.

Show me where I've insulted you and I'll more than happily dissect your post and tell you exactly why its drivel, you are probably a really nice guy, you just posted some nonsense about the game yesterday.

 

[elroberto]

Touché. But in fairness Pedersen went down like he had been shot from 2 yards away with a fifty-cal, not touched on the shoulder by a 12 year old-lookalike.

You wouldn't say that if you'd been grabbed by 'death-grip' Da Silva! He'd give Spock a run for his money!

 

[atpbx]

I'm not denying he went down lightly but 9 out of 10 of those decisions are given. Its just frustrating ours was the 1.

No they are not, hardly ever, there are a lot of incorrect penalty kicks given, to be a penalty it has to be a clear goal scoring opportunity denied, Pederson chose not to take his clear goal scoring opportunity by throwing himself on the floor making out he had been pulled back.

You can watch it over and over and over again, its clear from every angle there was no foul at all on Pederson, he wasnt even jostled or tapped, and Rafael didnt even make out to grab him in any way, all of which Webb saw.

 

[m0r94n]

Show me where I've insulted you and I'll more than happily dissect your post and tell you exactly why its drivel, you are probably a really nice guy, you just posted some nonsense about the game yesterday.

Its not nonsense though. Its a point of view that I and many other people share. I may have been a bit hasty in picking my words but when i'm looking for an adult discussion its annoying to be accused of "crying and whining". There will always be different viewpoints from sets of fans, but you seem to have the opinion that yours is right no matter what. As I said, I appreciate that some people may feel it isn't a penalty and without wanting to sound like a broken record i've seen them given plenty of times and am aggrieved ours wasn't.

No they are not, hardly ever, there are a lot of incorrect penalty kicks given, to be a penalty it has to be a clear goal scoring opportunity denied, Pederson chose not to take his clear goal scoring opportunity by throwing himself on the floor making out he had been pulled back.

You can watch it over and over and over again, its clear from every angle there was no foul at all on Pederson, he wasnt even jostled or tapped, and Rafael didnt even make out to grab him in any way, all of which Webb saw.

So Rafael has now gone from touching his shoulder to making no contact at all?


Whilst i'm here can any United fan clarify for me if Vidic has a ban in the game midweek? I've read here and there that he has and am unsure as to why he wasn't played from the start yesterday if it is true.

 

[atpbx]

Whilst i'm here can any United fan clarify for me if Vidic has a ban in the game midweek? I've read here and there that he has and am unsure as to why he wasn't played from the start yesterday if it is true.

A- Yes he is banned.
B- Fegusons stupidity.

 

[wedgie]

to be a penalty it has to be a clear goal scoring opportunity denied

That's not quite true. A penalty is a foul within the box, regardless of whether or not it denied a goal scoring opportunity.

 

[Stewy]

You wouldn't say that if you'd been grabbed by 'death-grip' Da Silva! He'd give Spock a run for his money!

 

[elroberto]

ROFL! I really appreciate the time and effort that went into that!

 

[Stewy]

You have no idea....I had to use paint lol

 

[DanH84]

A- Yes he is banned.
B- Fegusons stupidity.

Whilst i'm here can any United fan clarify for me if Vidic has a ban in the game midweek? I've read here and there that he has and am unsure as to why he wasn't played from the start yesterday if it is true.

i don't think that's stupidity. i think it went a bit awry due to bad luck with the injury but when playing a team in the bottom 3 who we 'should' have been fairly comfortable playing surely it makes sense to give Evans who was to be playing with ferdinand midweek the chance to get 90minutes under his belt with the person he was going to partner in defence.

 

[Owenb]

Nolan's tackle was definitley a straight red, but it'll be stupid if he gets a long ban. You see that kind of tackle every few weeks.

Well you don't see tackle that connect like that every week, but you do see players making tackles that could be very serious if the other player didn't manage to avoid it. There seems to be a silly view in the premier league where if you don't make contact it can't be a foul.
The odd thing about this tackle was that by going in 2-footed Nolan probably did less damage! If he lunged and landed with all his weight on Anichebe leg with just 1 foot then he probably would have broken it. By going in two footed he divided the force between the top and bottom of the shin!

 

[atpbx]

That's not quite true. A penalty is a foul within the box, regardless of whether or not it denied a goal scoring opportunity.

Thats the law of the game, you are right, but referees also work to "guidelines" (haphazardly) as to whether a penalty kick or sending off is awarded depending on the situation.

If we go solely by the rules, which is what the pundits and the opostion fans wanted yesterday it still isnt a penalty, observe the following from Fifa's rule book-

Direct Free Kick
A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits
any of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the
referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:
• kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
• trips or attempts to trip an opponent
• jumps at an opponent
• charges an opponent
• strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
• pushes an opponent
• tackles an opponent
A direct free kick is also awarded to the opposing team if a player
commits any of the following three offences:
• holds an opponent
• spits at an opponent
• handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his
own penalty area)
A direct free kick is taken from the place where the offence occurred
(see Law 13 – Position of Free Kick).
Penalty Kick
A penalty kick is awarded if any of the above ten offences is committed
by a player inside his own penalty area, irrespective of the position of
the ball, provided it is in play.


So seeing as Rafael neither acted with excessive force, tripped, held or acted in a careless manner, the very best Blackburn could have hoped for in that situation, was an indirect free kick.

 

[atpbx]

i don't think that's stupidity. i think it went a bit awry due to bad luck with the injury but when playing a team in the bottom 3 who we 'should' have been fairly comfortable playing surely it makes sense to give Evans who was to be playing with ferdinand midweek the chance to get 90minutes under his belt with the person he was going to partner in defence.

No, what you do is play the defender who is banned for the next match and get the match you are playing won, Vidic didnt need resting, Evans or ferdinand for that matter didnt need risking being injured and as it showed, just as its shown all season, Evans cant handle strong center forwards and gets bullied all over.

It might be a blessing in disguise if O'shea can play there against Inter.

 

[drunkenmaster]

It saddens me deeply to think we're nearer the former, not the latter.

I've just been watching the Inter vs Ac highlights. My word we're toothless upfront. I'm hoping there's going to be a backlash of goals soon, would be nice if Roma are the victims.

toothless, Villa who have a decent lead on us have failed to score in 8 games this year, we've only failed to score in 6, the same as chelsea, and Liverpool have failed to score in 5, Man U only 2, we are hardly terrible.

Everything in a game stems from the midfield pair. THink back to previously when any team has dominated the league, Keane/Scholes, Gilberto/Fabregas, Lampard/ Makelele, thats where everything starts, Song/Denilson, its pathetic and its reponsible for the poor offensive support aswell as no defensive cover. Even other teams, look where the goals come from, POol and City have scored more than us, Ireland and Gerrard get forwards constantly to support the strikers, get goals, and get assists. They are a threat that need to be defended against and thats the main point, if one defender is looking to mark one of your midfielders, thats one less to mark your strikers. Who honestly looks at Denilson and Song and tells their DM to mark one of them out of the game, any not clinically brain dead manager looks at Arsenal and tells their defensive midfield to help mark RVP, Nasri or someone else out of the game because Denilson and Song offer no threat at all.


Arshavin looked good but almost all his dangerous good work was in the middle when he cut in. He's as everyone said, not a winger at all, for 5 weeks he can replace Fabregas, then he's a bench warmer, complete and utter joke tbh. But for the next 5 weeks he HAS to be played ahead of Song or Denilson, because they are awful. How many times did you spot Denilson or Song passing sideways, slowing a break massively if not stopping it, giving the ball away or simply not getting far enough forwards to actually do anything effective. How many supporting Lampard type runs into the box did they make, not a one. Both useless, it would be great to see Arshavin in the middle and actually get a playmaker into the midfield who doesn't give it away, knows when to get forwards and has a chance of scoring.

 

[wedgie]

Thats the law of the game, you are right, but referees also work to "guidelines" (haphazardly) as to whether a penalty kick or sending off is awarded depending on the situation.

If we go solely by the rules, which is what the pundits and the opostion fans wanted yesterday it still isnt a penalty, observe the following from Fifa's rule book-

Direct Free Kick
A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits
any of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the
referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:
• kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
• trips or attempts to trip an opponent
• jumps at an opponent
• charges an opponent
• strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
• pushes an opponent
• tackles an opponent
A direct free kick is also awarded to the opposing team if a player
commits any of the following three offences:
• holds an opponent
• spits at an opponent
• handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his
own penalty area)
A direct free kick is taken from the place where the offence occurred
(see Law 13 – Position of Free Kick).
Penalty Kick
A penalty kick is awarded if any of the above ten offences is committed
by a player inside his own penalty area, irrespective of the position of
the ball, provided it is in play.


So seeing as Rafael neither acted with excessive force, tripped, held or acted in a careless manner, the very best Blackburn could have hoped for in that situation, was an indirect free kick.

I guess the challenge yesterday would fall under holding an opponent, so still would be a penalty (assuming there was enough of a pull back for it to be classed as holding).

I'm not actually sure what point I'm arguing here, I haven't seen the incident anywhere near enough to hold any opinion one way or another on it.

 

[elroberto]

Unless Rafael lightly brushing away Pedersen's unsightly dandruff from his shoulder counts as an offence it wasn't a penalty.

 

[DanH84]

No, what you do is play the defender who is banned for the next match and get the match you are playing won, Vidic didnt need resting, Evans or ferdinand for that matter didnt need risking being injured and as it showed, just as its shown all season, Evans cant handle strong center forwards and gets bullied all over.

It might be a blessing in disguise if O'shea can play there against Inter.

I'd put it as an acceptable risk considering the match to be played in midweek. we put out a strong team that should have been able to get the match won. Evans played well for us while ferdinand was injured but i wouldn't have wanted him to go to inter not having played for a few weeks.

 

[Stewy]

Unless Rafael lightly brushing away Pedersen's unsightly dandruff from his shoulder counts as an offence it wasn't a penalty.

If someone lightly brushed you would you fall over like an extra in Saving Private Ryan? Me neither

 

[Pigeon_Killer]

Howard Webb

How many decisions did he get wrong yesterday? Corner incorrectly given, goal incorrectly ruled out and Ronaldo not booked for kicking a player which would've meant a red for his dive and no goal from the free kick. Awful officiating.

Edit: Pretty pleased refs have started booking divers more. Been a lot of bookings in the last few weeks although a red card here and there wouldn't go a miss and might do more to stop it.

 

[FrankJH]

The goal was disallowed for a Ronaldo push on Nelsen iirc. Evans did nothing wrong.
.

you are stretching way beyond reason if you think there was a push there that made any difference at all

Whilst i'm here can any United fan clarify for me if Vidic has a ban in the game midweek? I've read here and there that he has and am unsure as to why he wasn't played from the start yesterday if it is true.

Yes Vidic is banned for the Milan game, after the red card he got in the World Club Championship Final. He didnt play from the start because Fergie wanted to see how Rio and Jonny Evans would play togeether before the crucial CL game (which is a good choice) - also Vidic probably deserved a rest if at all possible

I'd put it as an acceptable risk considering the match to be played in midweek. we put out a strong team that should have been able to get the match won. Evans played well for us while ferdinand was injured but i wouldn't have wanted him to go to inter not having played for a few weeks.

Spot on - its just very unfortunate the same injury from a few weeks ago re-surfaced, - it was the right choice of partnership for the blackburn game that didnt work out, nothing more. Not sure of OShea in the centre byt I guess if needs must