Went in 1.8 Integra type R ...

Zuban said:
yes but being a bigger engine there is more torque, so even though the gears are longer, the torque to the wheels is about the same. So you dont lose any flexibility.
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Try taking equivilent figure petrol and diesel cars on a fast road or track session and see how they compare, the results are pretty clear.

You do lose flexibility, because having a shorter rev range gives you a shorter powerband by definition (one of the key features of the VTEC engine is that it produces a pretty flat torque band over a huge area, over 6000rpm+ in the Type R).

Gearing can't counter the short powerband, in fact, long gearing makes the problem worse, because the gap between each ratio tends to be greater, which dramatically reduces gear choice options and flexibility in a fast road/track situation.

I love the mid range surge of my Audi, but I miss the huge powerband of my old VTI.
 
Marf said:
Which VTi did you have Dolph?
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I had an MB6 for four and a bit years

civic1.jpg


Was a great car, served me well, and is still about somewhere in someone else's hands at the place where I work.
 
Dolph said:
Try taking equivilent figure petrol and diesel cars on a fast road or track session and see how they compare, the results are pretty clear.

You do lose flexibility, because having a shorter rev range gives you a shorter powerband by definition (one of the key features of the VTEC engine is that it produces a pretty flat torque band over a huge area, over 6000rpm+ in the Type R).

Gearing can't counter the short powerband, in fact, long gearing makes the problem worse, because the gap between each ratio tends to be greater, which dramatically reduces gear choice options and flexibility in a fast road/track situation.

I love the mid range surge of my Audi, but I miss the huge powerband of my old VTI.
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i didnt say a shorter power band though i said a lower rev limit :p thats not the same thing.
 
Zuban said:
if they lowered the rev limit a little on a diesel turbo it would to.
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Yes, but it will still have a short powerband in comparison. A powerband is the longest rpm range that has the highest torque. So if you can produce a flat torque curve from 2000-8000rpm, you have a much bigger powerband than producing more torque from 2000-4500rpm. Gearing does not enter into this, it's purely an engine thing. The gearing dictates how often you are likely to be in the powerband, not the size of it.
 
Dolph said:
Yes, but it will still have a short powerband in comparison. A powerband is the longest rpm range that has the highest torque. So if you can produce a flat torque curve from 2000-8000rpm, you have a much bigger powerband than producing more torque from 2000-4500rpm. Gearing does not enter into this, it's purely an engine thing. The gearing dictates how often you are likely to be in the powerband, not the size of it.
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i should explain better, and lets forget diesels as i find it unlikely they would ever have put one in it :p

if you think of the power band as a percentage of the difference between the minimum and maximum available revs at which the engine is making usable torque, then your assuming no other engine can achieve such a percentage without vtec, which isnt true. Using a slightly larger engine would account for the loss of wheel torque through gearing.
 
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I love the looks of the DC5 and they seem quite rare?

There's a blue one I see around and it looks awesome. Only 200bhp though...and not very tunable? :(
 
Zuban said:
i should explain better, and lets forget diesels as i find it unlikely they would ever have put one in it :p

if you think of the power band as a percentage of the difference between the minimum and maximum available revs at which the engine is making usable torque, then your assuming no other engine can acheive such a percentage without vtec, which isnt true.
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But that's not what a powerband is, which is where the confusion is coming.

Percentage is irrelevant, the relationship between revs, power and torque is not based on a percentage, nor is the effect of gearing.

Put simply, a car with a higher torque, shorter powerband engine with longer gearing does not feel the same to drive, irrespective of peak power levels, as one with a lower torque, but longer powerband and shorter gearing. Nor is it as quick over a fast driving situation, although it might appear that way in day to day road use.
 
ethos said:
I love the looks of the DC5 and they seem quite rare?

There's a blue one I see around and it looks awesome. Only 200bhp though...and not very tunable? :(
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DC5 is import only, rather than having a UKDM variant like the DC2.

I like the look of both the DC2 and the DC5, not sure which I prefer looks-wise, and haven't driven either of them so can't comment on that side of things. :(
 
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