Went to Porsche today - Got lucky, superb experience.
- Thread starter Gibbo
- Start date
Soldato
- Joined
- 19 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 3,164
It's around 1350kg v just shy of 1700kg for the M3 but it is down around 120bhp, lap times for the ring show the M3 is faster too.
What does the Cayman weigh, it did feel very light on its feet.
1350kg or so afaik. Still carrying a few extra pounds, but it is a sensible enough weight for a modern car
911 GT2s are 1450+
GT3s are much more sensible at 1400 or so
Other stuff is in between I guess
We live in such a stupid world now really though, we are talking about some "performance" cars that are 1700+kg, that used to be what SUVs weighed not that long ago!
Soldato
- Joined
- 19 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 3,164
If they have the "performance" what does the weight matter, the GTR is 1700kg+ but will own pretty much all the competition and much lighter cars too.
Light cars do come into there own of course but with reduced engine power and cheaper purchase price, but you tend to end up with a track orientated car rather than a comfortable luxury performance car.
Light cars do come into there own of course but with reduced engine power and cheaper purchase price, but you tend to end up with a track orientated car rather than a comfortable luxury performance car.
Adding more power is just an attempt to mask the effects of weight, but when you come to a corner you can feel the weight. Lighter cars are much more nimble in the bends.
Being light has nothing to do with luxury, most of the weight is due to "safety" features that are mandated - many of which have little influence on actual occupant safety.
Being light has nothing to do with luxury, most of the weight is due to "safety" features that are mandated - many of which have little influence on actual occupant safety.
Soldato
Shut up.
Caporegime
I was just about to say, 'Not this again'.
Caporegime
i know **** all about handling.
But the motoring press and TV shows alike all rave about how good the E92 M3 is.
Its come top of group test after group test.
That alone makes it worth at least a look. Who gives a stuff if its over 1600 kilos ? Not like its a 2 ton barge like the last RS6.
But the motoring press and TV shows alike all rave about how good the E92 M3 is.
Its come top of group test after group test.
That alone makes it worth at least a look. Who gives a stuff if its over 1600 kilos ? Not like its a 2 ton barge like the last RS6.
An F1 car weighs little an yet can keep the occupant safe enough even in a high speed crash.
If the occupant structure is rigid enough to not deform and the occupant is secured properly (such as say by harnesses as opposed to normal seat belts) then they will be safer.
Equally you want the car to bounce along rather than be caught and come to a dead halt, as that prevents sudden deceleration.
Lastly you want the engine block to not come into the occupant compartment.
Airbags, crumple zones, etc are all there because seatbelts do not restrain the people well at all.
MrLOL ... OK, and now make that M3 say 1200kg (and add aero if need be so that the force on the tyres is what is needed).
The lighter car will be raved about, and the heavier one will be called a pig in comparison.
At whatever weight you have making it lighter will make it better (provided you tune other things such as dampers/springs to this new weight)
Last edited:
Cant agree there, the EVO X is heavier than previous EVO's but if anything its handling is a vast improvement yet its heavier.
The EVO X is 150kg heavier than previous EVO and even more so heavier than models before but the weigh it handles is truly immense and much better than previous versions.
Cars might have got heavier but suspension technology/dynamics have improved vastly.
Also a GTR feels very nimble mid corner and it proves this on track too its vastly quicker than many lighter cars with similar power.
Yes if you could make a GTR 1500kg, it would be even better, but in this modern world it weighs 1700kg unfortunately but so what it an epic car and it out handles many cars which weigh less than it.
Caporegime
Don't waste your breath mate, it's not worth arguing the point, he's an 'Expert' in everthing and nothing.
Soldato
- Joined
- 19 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 3,164
Err F1 cars have massive down force due to the aerodynamics, this is what Nissan set out to achieve in their design, rather than having stupid spoilers they increased the weight and tyre surface for massive grip and faster cornering ability.
Also an F1 car is fully built of carbon fibre and you need to be a hobbit to sit in one, not really practical for everyday comfort now is it.
Also an F1 car is fully built of carbon fibre and you need to be a hobbit to sit in one, not really practical for everyday comfort now is it.
Last edited:
Soldato
- Joined
- 19 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 3,164
Look at the list of ring lap times, in the top 10 most of them are 1500kg cars, the few that aren't have massive spoilers to give them down force in the corners.
How much do you think an F1 weighs effectively when cornering at high speed, is it 650kg ?
Couldn't agree more. This is a thread that doesn't need his stupid opinions on what cars should be like. I wish he'd learn that no one gives a toss what he thinks 9/10 times.
Its not just weight though is it, weight is just one thing, downforce, suspension dynamics, powertrain, differentials, advanced computers all effect how a car handles.
When cornering at high speed downforce is very important, inertia can be dealt with by adding more mechanical grip via a larger contact patch and more downforce.
A car been lighter does not necessarily mean its better.
What is your argument exactly?
Are you say lighter cars handle better than heavier cars? If so thats rubbish.
If your saying making an already great car lighter will make it better, then yes that is correct but generally making same car lighter will generally mean they are poverty spec or stupidly expensive.
The Cayman is what 1350kg and don't get me wrong its bloody amazing, but I'd bet that a GTR weighing some 350kg more will corner just as fast as it no problem. Which proves its not all about weight.
I'm making the point that if you take two cars, both having the "ultimate setup" [god that sounds like something off one of the Jap CAr shows - ultimate setup!] for that weight or whatever then if one of them is lighter (provided it has enough downforce for its needs) it will be better.
I am not saying all lighter cars are better, I am saying that ALL ELSE being equal (and by equal I do not mean exactly the same setup, I mean the same level of setup) the lighter car will be better.
I am not saying all lighter cars are better, I am saying that ALL ELSE being equal (and by equal I do not mean exactly the same setup, I mean the same level of setup) the lighter car will be better.