Westfields... any experts?

Any pics of your car m_cozzy, I'll look out for it on the roads out around here! :)

amigafan2003, I certainly don't think you're stupid for using a pinto, I didn't have a donor engine with my Sierra bits so I went for the Zetec due to the ease of installation, price of it and location when I spotted it on ebay.
 
amigafan2003 said:
Er, me? Driven around 15 now with various engines and still building one with a Pinto - now that either says it's not as bad as people say or that I'm stupid.
Click to expand...

Dont worry, im with you on this. I cant belive for a second that a Pinto can be considered slow, heavy and useless, seen as its been used so extensively in kit cars. I also understand there are countless alternatives, and nobody will ever agree.

And to the guy who said that Pintos are old tech... you do understand that seven style kit cars are a tweaked version of a car designed in the 50s right?

Basically, I want something fast, fun and cheap. Locost kist cars fit the bill and I will decide on a CEC or BEC when I actually have the funds.
 
A westy with a more modern 16valve engine will generally be worth at least £1500 more when selling than a car fitted with a pinto, xflow probably closer to £3000 cheaper.
I doesnt make sense to me to fit a 30year old, 8 valve engine into a new build these days, when a better engine & fitting kit can be had for not a lot more initial outlay.
 
I upgraded my Fury form a xflow to a Zetec last year. So far it has done about 15,000 miles including 3,500 through Spain and France recently without missing a beat. I don't have a recent picture of the installation so this will have to do. Needless to say it is now somewhat neater as well...

large.jpg


As has been said it isn't cheap to convert a Zetec to RWD, but as with anything there are plenty of ways to save money. Provided there is space you don't need a new water rail (I didn't). If you do need one the retro ford one is cheaper than the Raceline version. You don't need a new flywheel, but the 2.0 Zetec version is a boat anchor, so at the very least fit the one of a 1.8. The blacktop sump is part ali, part steel with the steel bit at the bottom which makes it really easy to shorten. It is possible to reuse the standard Ford induction although that will strangle the engine. The spigot bearing will only set you back about £10...

The reason that I fitted the Zetec over other choices was that I wanted a powerful, reliable (Used only 200ml of oil on the spanish trip :)) and disposable engine. If mine goes pop I can pick another up tomorrow and stick it straight in for only a couple of hundred...

The costs of my install were as follows:

2l Engine £200.00
Sump £182.13
Exhaust Manifold £200
Alternator+Mount £176.25
Starter £59.7
Flywheel £105.75
Clutch £43.19
Timing belt £54.94
Water pump £14.74
Spigot Bearing £9.98

This all comes to about £1000. On top of this was the fuel injection system and the ECU. I used a Megasquirt and Jenvey throttle bodys but there are plenty of other options such as bike TBs which can keep costs down.

Out of interest what would it cost to build a 170 HP Pinto?

For those interested there are plenty of pictures of the engine change here:

http://www.pbase.com/brycheiniog/fury

And pictures of the spainish tour here:

http://www.pbase.com/brycheiniog/se7ens_tour_spain_france&page=all

Jonathan
 
That's a nice install there - so much room compared to a & engine bay!

I'm going the Megasquirt route as well - got it starting on the button and warming up to temp without missing a beat - low load map tuning next.
 
I doesnt make sense to me to fit a 30year old, 8 valve engine into a new build these days,
Click to expand...

Doesn't make send to fit a windscreen, wipers, heater and a roof to a 7 either but people do :-)

Lol, just mucking about - keep the discussion going - it's fascinating!
 
As a future buyer of a pre built car, im confused and lost with all this arguing etc etc etc.

One thing still hasnt changed tho, I still want one. :)

My aim is to get rides in all different engined cars, both bike and car engines, and see what I think, then make my own decision. If theres one thing I have leant its that locost kits are individual to an owner and an owners taste.
 
Brycheiniog said:
Out of interest what would it cost to build a 170 HP Pinto?
Click to expand...

Tuning the Pinto starts getting very expensive very quickly much past 160 bhp. Personaly I'm not a huge fan of the Zetec E; they aren't bad engines by any means but the 20XE is so much better.

I still feel that unless you are after monster power, the smaller capacity, lightweight engines are hard to beat for a 7, e.g. Zetec SE, GM 16XE, K Series etc.
 
Dogbreath said:
Tuning the Pinto starts getting very expensive very quickly much past 160 bhp. Personaly I'm not a huge fan of the Zetec E; they aren't bad engines by any means but the 20XE is so much better.
Click to expand...

The XE is a lovely engine but is getting much harder to get hold of a decent one these days. It would also have required a custom bellhousing and exhaust manifold which would have added considerably to the expense of my installation...

There is no right answer to this question :).

Jonathan
 
My aim is to get rides in all different engined cars, both bike and car engines, and see what I think, then make my own decision.
Click to expand...

You've got the right idea there. Don't go in with pre-conceptions - get a lot of rides then test drive the ones you are thinking of buying. It's much more important to get a car that "feels" right and handles better than any high bhp pub talk engine.

That "feels right" car could be a Pinto, Zetec, Duratec, XE or any kind of engine. It's the overall package that counts.

One thing to be wary of is a high power engine with the standard crappy Cortina powered brakes on!
 
Brycheiniog said:
The XE is a lovely engine but is getting much harder to get hold of a decent one these days. It would also have required a custom bellhousing and exhaust manifold which would have added considerably to the expense of my installation...

There is no right answer to this question :).

Jonathan
Click to expand...

It's harder to find a good XE than a Zetec for sure, but they are around. With throttle bodies you'd be knocking on the door of 200bhp on an otherwise standard engine though...

But I agree there is no 'right' answer; every engine has it's pros and cons.
 
Brycheiniog said:
The costs of my install were as follows:

2l Engine £200.00
Sump £182.13
Exhaust Manifold £200
Alternator+Mount £176.25
Starter £59.7
Flywheel £105.75
Clutch £43.19
Timing belt £54.94
Water pump £14.74
Spigot Bearing £9.98


Jonathan
Click to expand...
Hi Jonathan,

The thing is, most of the items you have listed will also be required on a pinto engine, so if you take those off then it's not really *that* much more. Along with my £80 1.8 Zetec I'll believe only need a spigot bearing and sump modified as an 'extra', I'll get the sump modified though locally I think as £182 seems quite a lot of money for what doesn't seem to be a lot of work! Some people on Locostbuilders don't seem to modify the 1.8 sump at all but I think I'll do it to be safe rather than sorry.
 
I paid Scholar Engines to do the sump and flywheel. It is difficult to weld a Silvertop Ali sump and not end up with pinhole leaks (Tiger had stopped selling theirs because of this very reason). I also wanted something that was proven not to suffer from oil surge problems.

The flywheel was extensively lightened and redrilled to take a pinto clutch giving many more performance options than the standard Mondeo offering.

How are you planning on mounting the alternator? It should be fairly easy to fabricate the brackets, but I was pressed for time so just threw some money at Dunnell.

Jonathan
 
A little bit of lateral thinking can have the alternator mounted for a couple of quid.

M8 rod end, adjuster braket from ebay, standard bottom mount.

alternatorfitted.jpg
 
Skeeter said:
lol. I had noticed this, the whole "single donor car, but we recomend you upgrade the brakes" stuff. :)
Click to expand...

The brakes aren't really that bad I wouldn't have thought, you think how heavy a Cortina, Capri or Granada is compared to a kit car and they use the same brakes.

If they are really bad then I might consider getting better calipers, but I think they'll be more than fine. When I used to race Mini Se7ens I was always amazed how good the tiny stock Cooper S 2 pot calipers and 8.4 inch discs could stop the car, but I always put it down to the weight of the car. My kit car should weigh less than the Mini 7 and the cortina brakes are far bigger.
 
True. I think my main worry about donor brakes would be the age and condition, not so much the stopping power. They are, as you said, stopping something much lighter than usual. And brakes are fairly important, its definately an area I wouldnt want to skimp in.
 
Well, a Westfield built from a single donor vehicle will have much better brakes than the standard Cortina items (240mm vented, larger bore caliper vs 240mm solid).

I was more referring to older cars that have had bigger engines dropped in at a later date without upgrading the brakes - same as normal road cars really.
 
Skeeter said:
True. I think my main worry about donor brakes would be the age and condition, not so much the stopping power. They are, as you said, stopping something much lighter than usual. And brakes are fairly important, its definately an area I wouldnt want to skimp in.
Click to expand...

Oh I certainly wouldn't have just chucked the cortina brakes straight on, mine looked like they had been at the bottom of the sea for about 15 years!!

I of course got new discs, pads plus a new set of pistons and seals for the caliper. It was pretty scary getting the old pistons out. In the end I did it with compressed air and a hammer on the old piston until BANG!! it came out.

Old vs new piston:
P1040512.JPG


This is what I had to recondition (obviously the upright on the left I had done by then):
2631150320_8dfb6bdb87_b.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom