WestMids - Stop and Search + survey

[The Running Man]

He has a point, the lesser drugs (looking at maryjo) that are already accepted and legalised in many paces of the world really should be.

Definitely if people can't abide by the law, just change the law. Reduces crime rates and also has the benefit of making them not look like criminals.

Not sure it will have any positive impact on other crimes, like knife crime etc which are often related to illicit drug trade.

Note this stop.and search and infact most are related to knife crime, not necessarily possession. And this was due to an ongoing investigation into a robbery..

 

[Tony Edwards]

You realise you are racist don’t you?

So the police aren’t allowed to stop and search based on descriptions which include skin colour..... oh dear what a ridiculous thing to say

Did she miss his hood?


No, S+S because he matched the description the PC had, admittedly rather vague but she could've stopped me typically I wear a black jacket and have a beard *shrug*

Howd you feel if it was one of your family members that was robbed and later found out...
"we think we saw him on the street but didn't think to stop him in case we hurt his feelings?"

I don't hold stop and search against anyone, if it has reasonable cause.

Wonder what was in the kinder egg

Sadly both of you two fail on reading comprehension. reread my posts.

 

[Mr Oblong]

It was pitch black...

When I made my subsequent comment I never mentioned my skin tone, simply black jacket and beard.
Not one person here has questioned it.

See how easy it is to interpret description
As burnsy has said better descriptions may go a long way to help with this.

The guy in the video was clearly being awkward

I'm talking about stop and search in general, as should be clear. It isn't about you- your 'gotcha' about 'how easy it is' doesn't apply to me, thanks.

 

[Mr Oblong]

I'm not expecting any feedback, just sharing what WestMids have put out. I'm just interested in how people perceive the interactions. It shows a lot of misconceptions over how the police operate and what information they have to act on.



If the public give us better descriptions, then we'll have more to work with, but ultimately it's more often than not the public giving us these limited details.

I'm not sure it's as simple as police, robot-like, perfectly executing on limited information. Stereotypes and gut-feel play their part, and are all vectors for bias.

 

[Mr Oblong]

Er no.

This case has nothing to do with racism. That much is obvious to anyone looking objectively at the facts as presented.

Now if you were to dispute those facts, dig into the records amd present tome that there infact was no robbery, victim, description on said night then I would agree it looks a bit dodgy.

Otherwise you're just wrong.

I'm talking about the application of stop and search in general, this one case is frankly an anecdote and not especially interesting to me.

 

[Mr Oblong]

Then the person who called them up and described it got it wrong. Not all police want to go out bullying people the majority want to help.

Chocolate ofc.

"Not all police" is true. It's also not especially helpful to the victimised that the (few, apparently) that want to go after them find it very easy.

 

[The Running Man]

"Not all police" is true. It's also not especially helpful to the victimised that the (few, apparently) that want to go after them find it very easy.

The victims are the ones getting, mugged, knifed or sexually assaulted etc.

Let's not forget that.

 

[Mr Oblong]

The victims are the ones getting, mugged, knifed or sexually assaulted etc.

Let's not forget that.

Wow, really insightful ... but missing the point.

Just because someone's been a victim of crime, you don't create justice by clumsily stopping youths en masse (which the evidence suggests happens, regularly). There's a lot of academic literature that undermines the efficacy of stop and search in reducing crime overall (as opposed to spot-reductions for very limited types of crime in very specific areas).

Harassing people on the street undermines the relationship between police and the citizens they serve. That really hurts when you need a community to co-operate with an investigation, be witnesses etc., because the assumption becomes "they're out to get us".

It's not as pragmatic as some seem to think.

 

[2004typer]

I can understand if the man searched feels a bit aggrieved if he gets repeatedly searched, but, if the area where he resides is a high crime area, and you are out that late at night on a regular basis then statistically you are more likely to be subject to this, same as every other person in the vicinity who matches a likely match for the offender at that particular moment.

 

[The Running Man]

Wow, really insightful ... but missing the point.

Just because someone's been a victim of crime, you don't create justice by clumsily stopping youths en masse (which the evidence suggests happens, regularly). There's a lot of academic literature that undermines the efficacy of stop and search in reducing crime overall (as opposed to spot-reductions for very limited types of crime in very specific areas).

Harassing people on the street undermines the relationship between police and the citizens they serve. That really hurts when you need a community to co-operate with an investigation, be witnesses etc., because the assumption becomes "they're out to get us".

It's not as pragmatic as some seem to think.

Without giving you the stats the reason that more BAME are being stopped and searched in certain areas is because they are linked with crime.

The stop and search didn't cause the crime.

In other countries where there is no stop and search, the local bame population dont co operate with the police anyway. Even if the police are bame themselves.

So perhaps they are just scapegoating the s+so and police for other cultural issues?

 

[Mr Oblong]

Without giving you the stats the reason that more BAME are being stopped and searched in certain areas is because they are linked with crime.

The stop and search didn't cause the crime.

In other countries where there is no stop and search, the local bame population dont co operate with the police anyway. Even if the police are bame themselves.

So perhaps they are just scapegoating the s+so and police for other cultural issues?

Stop and search is self-justifying, focus on minority areas and you'll dredge up more crime that justifies ever greater focus.

There is racism (and classism) in the criminal justice system, both on a systemic and individual level. This year has made that clearer to some people, but some people are holding onto the idea of a just world. I get it.

There's a lot of sociological evidence that stop and search is not equitably applied, regardless of underlying offender stats. But I'll leave it there, this conversation can be a quagmire.

 

[Zatoichi.uK]

I'm not sure what people are objecting to. If someone matches a description and is in the area that is enough to warrant a stop.

Comply with the police requests and if they cross a line then put in a complaint. Resisting, acting like an a-hole etc. Isn't going to help your case. In fact complying, being polite and (shock horror) trying to help may even benefit you and your community.

 

[Dis86]

I'm not sure what people are objecting to. If someone matches a description and is in the area that is enough to warrant a stop.

Comply with the police requests and if they cross a line then put in a complaint. Resisting, acting like an a-hole etc. Isn't going to help your case. In fact complying, being polite and (shock horror) trying to help may even benefit you and your community.

People are objecting because it's largely the same demographics getting stopped time and time again.

The problem is it's largely the same demographics that are committing the majority of offences.

 

[Burnsy2023]

I'm not sure it's as simple as police, robot-like, perfectly executing on limited information. Stereotypes and gut-feel play their part, and are all vectors for bias.

I don't doubt that there is racial bias, conscious or otherwise, but descriptions as limited as in the video are common in initial reports.

 

[Mr Oblong]

I don't doubt that there is racial bias, conscious or otherwise, but descriptions as limited as in the video are common in initial reports.

It just seems imprecise to the point of harm.

 

[stuman]

It just seems imprecise to the point of harm.

"sorry sir, we won't be able to stop and question anybody because in the heat of the moment of getting stabbed you could not paint a perfect verbal representation of the suspect. Did you still want that ambulance?"

lol, harm.

 

[Skunkworks]

I have no problem with racial profiling, exactly how I have no problem with age and sex profiling.

 

[The Running Man]

I don't doubt that there is racial bias, conscious or otherwise, but descriptions as limited as in the video are common in initial reports.

I guess it comes down to whether that bias is fair or not.

 

[Burnsy2023]

It just seems imprecise to the point of harm.

Maybe. It's a difficult balancing act. S&S is a very useful method to deal with hard-line criminals, but has collateral damage. When it works, it's the returns are big, but I don't deny that especially when it's used improperly, it does have negative effects that ultimately reduce confidence in police. From my own anecdotal evidence, it seems that the threshold for a search seems to be lower in metropolitan areas such as London than where I am. Although, the crime that S&S is designed to help combat is more prevalent in London than where I am. There are no easy answers here.

 

[Jez]

The police officer seemed too wet IMO, very unassertive and woolly.