US: Westworld

[v0n]

A few things I didn't quite grasp in this episode -

With regard to the scene with Maeve on the train, was that not Lawrences daughter sat opposite her? Edit - The cast credits indicate that his daughter was in the episode.

It was not Lawrence's daughter on the train.

If so, can we assume the escape sequence was all part of an elaborate storyline? (as implied by Arnold/Bernard).

You can (regardless of the daughter). Because "mainland infiltration" literally was part of her scenario (bottom of the screen):

That and "it's not the first time you've awoken either" quote from Bernard made her exit the train and thus go off the script loop...

Also, the scene in which the audience were revealed to be watching Dolores dying on the beach; How much of her sequence leading to this point were they exposed to?

This was perhaps one of the most bizarre conveniences/liberties the finale developed. On the afternoon of the big scenario reveal, the main character of the new script (Wyatt) is still otherwise engaged in a punch-up with Old William (MiB) and she's continuing her journey to self discovery off the loop of the previous script. She gets stabbed by MiB and is about to get decapitated, when Teddy runs to her rescue. Dying Dolores utters her final wish to Teddy, which happens to perfectly line up with the new scenario and its premiere (and seemingly couldn't possibly have anything to do with the Wyatt story which was being rolled out). It was nice in execution and nice to watch, but absolute stretch of scripting WTF-ism by a nautical mile, from the Utah ocean side, to the logistics of putting said ocean next to the Escalante (where the party and massacre takes place later on) all the way to the stab wound being in the right place and right time.

Lastly, wouldn't the act of freeing the hosts so that they could slaughter the guests be counterproductive?

Completely. Following the shootout of all the guests in park 1, sector 20, zone 1 (for the benefit of one or two hosts going sentient), the story pretty much ends with them walking around house in the forest with creepy Ford family and asking each other to find the door/"what door" until they run out of batteries, or fresh food, or whatever it is their biology runs on. If their escape scenario relied on team Hector/Armistice to wipe out staff on all levels of control within park 1, then they would be removing the only people that can fix, revive and remove parameter triggered "spine explosives" from them (you remember - Meave had to burn herself in fire and be rebuilt with that part of the spine re-planted into the weaving machine by Felix to be able to escape. Essentially - the best/worst case of Ford's plan is the other parks maintenance shut down Westworld, let all the hosts run out of juice before promptly reprogramming the lot with the "last known best configuration". Presumably Shogun World and other parks have their own Bernards/Elsies in charge of maintaining hosts that could perform the task.

 

[datalol-jack]

I'm still getting a somewhat JavaScript-y vibe from that code. Designers bum it for some reason.

 

[Kyo]

As Maeve was escaping they went through Samurai World so that suggests there are differently themed parks.

Yes was thinking the same thing although SW could also stand for Shogun world. Based on the original movie there was West World, Medieval World and Roman World iirc.

 

[Vonhelmet]

Did they say it's in Central America?

I thoroughly enjoyed the show from beginning to end. I can see where they might go with season 2 but I don't see how they can capture the feel of season 1. Looking forward to it though!

Sorry, I meant central small C, like in the middle, not like Mexico etc. In any case you'd struggle to find anywhere in the world with landscape, weather, etc to suit west and samurai worlds being adjacent.

 

[Jono8]

'Dr Ford' on the Westworld OST - Dem feels

Such a beautiful track.

 

[v0n]

Sorry, I meant central small C, like in the middle, not like Mexico etc. In any case you'd struggle to find anywhere in the world with landscape, weather, etc to suit west and samurai worlds being adjacent.

Most of the cues in the show suggested that WW is within some very, very remote artificial environment or even not on Earth. It is remote enough for video calls to be arranged by scheduled uplinks, place is "difficult to reach" and "it is hard to get an open line here" (Bernard and his "wife" in ep 3) and it isn't strange to anyone. Is it remote enough for data theft to be arranged via satellite relays or by physically moving it inside the body of a host, as if datacenter of this size had no reliable internet connection to the rest of the world. It is remote enough for the staff to only occasionally "rotate home" (Sizemore talk with Theresa in ep 1) and we can see just how super fast those trains run every time Ford walked to the lift. And so on.

 

[Destination]

I was wondering, if Ford had Bernard kill Elsie, as we think he did, why?
Was that not the data upload with information being stolen, after being established by Theresa?
Or was that simply how Ford made it look, and if so, where was Ford sending the information?

 

[Leg]

Following the shootout of all the guests in park 1, sector 20, zone 1 (for the benefit of one or two hosts going sentient), the story pretty much ends with them walking around house in the forest with creepy Ford family and asking each other to find the door/"what door" until they run out of batteries, or fresh food, or whatever it is their biology runs on.

Meave looks to have reconfigured the hosts that were in storage, so I would assume she could have removed the programing that causes the host to ignore certain things. Ford could also have left hidden programming to do something similar.

If their escape scenario relied on team Hector/Armistice to wipe out staff on all levels of control within park 1, then they would be removing the only people that can fix, revive and remove parameter triggered "spine explosives" from them (you remember - Meave had to burn herself in fire and be rebuilt with that part of the spine re-planted into the weaving machine by Felix to be able to escape.

Not really an issue, turn every hosts' "cognition" up to 20, get Bernard to program some hosts in basic bot maintenance, they can fix themselves.

The hosts also only need the major repairs as they are destroyed/damaged every 24 hours to keep the guests entertained. New world order in Westworld means less major repairs.

Ford could have disabled the remote control on the explosives, and the host rebuilding process looked to automated, with just one piece of spine to be replaced.

Essentially - the best/worst case of Ford's plan is the other parks maintenance shut down Westworld, let all the hosts run out of juice before promptly reprogramming the lot with the "last known best configuration". Presumably Shogun World and other parks have their own Bernards/Elsies in charge of maintaining hosts that could perform the task.

Westworld's control office is in lockdown, automatic response, or has Ford set it up to prevent them monitoring/shutting down the the hosts?

The hosts outnumber the staff, so they just need to get control of key areas. Bernard will have this knowledge and has already shown he can manipulate the security systems.

Season 2:
The hosts end up controlling access to the park, hosts cannot be remotely shutdown, government nukes Westworld

Hosts immune to nukes

 

[Destination]

Why were there so many sublevels?
Even with vast storage needs, I don't see why so many levels would be necessary for production and maintenance.

is it the old BSG, all of this has happened before and will happen again?
Is there a real world anymore?

 

[datalol-jack]

Why were there so many sublevels?
Even with vast storage needs, I don't see why so many levels would be necessary for production and maintenance.

is it the old BSG, all of this has happened before and will happen again?
Is there a real world anymore?

The most obvious explanation would be that they iterated, making the park bigger each time as more money and resources became available, converting empty levels into storage, production, maintenance or housing as required. The more tinfoil explanations are above.

All the world's a stage, after all!

 

[v0n]

I was wondering, if Ford had Bernard kill Elsie, as we think he did, why?

Yes. Why? It absolutely makes no sense. I'm sure the answer (if any) in Season 2 is going to be something forced and highfalutin like "they needed everyone with admin level and ability to control hosts removed from the game" but at this point it's bull. Vanishing of Elsie (and to a degree Stubbs) and then showing us, twice, flashback of Bernard strangling Elsie makes no sense in the plot. Her efforts benefited Ford. Why would he order Bernard to kill her? But then, why would Ford force Bernard to blow his brains out and leave him on the floor in cold storage if Bernard was so essential to hosts survival and programming post "red wedding". Yet somehow Ford went ahead with his plan magically knowing that somehow Bernard will rise from the dead and show up at the right moment like a dog to his masters leg. That's really naive writing.

I have two issues with today's shows in general. First thing is this "expanded universe" malarky they are trying to force on viewer as a secondary plot delivery device. Like "we provided clue on delosincorpoted website" or "it was hinted via Aeden" or "GPS coordinates to the park appear in Finnish subtitles on some obscure scandinavian network". No. This is TV story told to TV viewers. If it's not on the screen you can shove it. Up yours. If I have to reach for some Amazon exclusive book, browse some website, "hack it" out of some HTML code, to understand the plot, then it's not part of the narration. It's fan fiction, it's watercooler gossip.
I'm not signing up for updates, not joining websites to "find clues on what kind of marine animal bit off Ahab's leg at the knee, only at www.moby-and-his-large-richard.movie". Was not on the screen = myth not confirmed.

Second thing I hate is this weird inability of almost all modern TV writers, regardless of budget and effort, to distinguish between cliffhanger and plot hole. I don't know why. Cliffhangers you deliver. Plot holes you leave behind. Cliffhangers are really simple to create - for any plot to remain part of the story between episodes you have to coherently provide five out of six elements of "who, what, when, how, why and what's next/where do we go from here". You simply withhold one, in some extreme cases two elements of the six and voila - the plot can carry on as a cliffhanger. If you drop more elements, then it's no longer cliffhanger. It's an incomplete thought, it's a setup that's been left mostly unsaid. It becomes a plot hole and any later additions are just retrospective fixes - damage control. "We left it open ended" "we left it out on purpose" - no - you forgot to tell us. You know the plot, because you wrote it. I don't. Let me offer an example:

Who? Han Solo What? Was captured by Imperial Forces When? this afternoon while exploring Cloud City How? He was frozen in carbonite and handed over to bounty hunters Why? for allegedly owing large sums of money to Jabba The Hutt Where do we go from here? Stay tuned for more. (cliffhanger) TAforkingDA!

Incidentally, these are also the very same elements every journalist must fulfil to deliver news synopsis - read the above in your favourite anchors voice and it becomes an instant "tonight on BBC News" soundbite or a promo for a full length documentary on Panorama.

Now, try and leave more elements out of this simple plot and it starts falling apart. But we now reached the stage where writers don't just drop one element, they drop most of them - in modern day epic adventure two supporting characters we invested time and attention with, entered a random room and woods respectively and disappeared all together until sequel to everyone's confusion. Now, loosing several plots and actors and not returning to them for at least two years is not a "mystery", "event", "device", "mcguffin" or cliffhanger. It's "WTF" moment. We followed data leak plot for half a season. Theresa died on screen for this data leak. Abernathy was pulled out of cold storage for this data leak. Charlotte was introduced only to orchestrate this data leak. Then the plot gets discarded together with the cast - what leak - whoosh - smoke, mirrors, misdirection - everymotherlovingone dies in a godfather shootout. That's just shoddy writing. Those characters are not left "hanging on a cliff", they are as good as dead to us, viewers. Why waste our time, why develop the plot and characters at all if you are not going to follow through and forget about them in the end? Just give Hopkins some extended shakespearian monologue to Radiohead rendition instead.

 

[AndyCr15]

nm...

 

[MikeTheNative]

Yes. Why? It absolutely makes no sense. I'm sure the answer (if any) in Season 2 is going to be something forced and highfalutin like "they needed everyone with admin level and ability to control hosts removed from the game" but at this point it's bull. Vanishing of Elsie (and to a degree Stubbs) and then showing us, twice, flashback of Bernard strangling Elsie makes no sense in the plot. Her efforts benefited Ford. Why would he order Bernard to kill her? But then, why would Ford force Bernard to blow his brains out and leave him on the floor in cold storage if Bernard was so essential to hosts survival and programming post "red wedding". Yet somehow Ford went ahead with his plan magically knowing that somehow Bernard will rise from the dead and show up at the right moment like a dog to his masters leg. That's really naive writing.

As Bernard said to Maeve, everything she has been doing so far had been programmed so it's not that much of a reach to say that Ford programmed her to bring back Bernard on her escape.

 

[~>Dg<~]

or maybe by making bernard suffer so much it would make him grow into what ford wanted him to be.

she may of been killed more for bernards growth,suffering than why was " she " killed her story. its just how you look at it.you trying to decypher one mans vision from your own.

bernard is obviously a key part.so he is priority.not her.

 

[Destination]

Interesting yes, the suffering, quite plausible.

 

[The Running Man]

Im hoping maece comes back and leads the samurai warriors to cleanse the park of the wyatt gang before they kill every host in there.

 

[Rroff]

Just started watching this so trying to avoid spoilers dunno if it was just due to hitting the mood I was in but first 2 episodes were excellent.

Is it me or is the barrel piano and all the shots of it utilised in an allegorical nature? (rather than just randomly inserted/period setting).

 

[AndyCr15]

I thought this was quite funny...

 

[Combat Fighter]

Well at least there's a nice long wait till I put myself through the pain of season 2.

 

[krooton]

No love for Felix looking at his hands after the Bernard reveal?