What did maggie do?

[Visage]

And yet this Govt has managed to redirect funds (ie Govt spending in local areas) to Labour heartlands resulting in ..... cheap labour council taxes as they are massively subsidised and expensive non labour ones as they have zero Govt help.

But its not just Labour that does that - for many years (it may still be the case now), Wandsworth Council had the lowest Council tax in the country - it was always used by the Tories as an exmaple of how low CT (and before that, Poll tax) could be.....

A few years ago i moved house 100 yards down the street, but in doing so moved from Wandsworth to Richmond - it was noticable (painfully so...) how much council tax could change over such a short distance, for two councils who are providing the same services.....

 

[dirtydog]

Superficially, that seems like a good idea. But there's probems there, too.

Do you know what will happen if you do that?

I'll tell you what I'd do. I''d simply adjust my investments to produce an adequate income, but otherwise to concentrate on capital growth, not income generation. And I'll therefore pay less tax.

The small number of people who would be in a position to do that, no doubt do it already.

I don't know how much income taxes would need to rise but I doubt it would be much - perhaps a few pence. I would expect billions to be saved in the cost of administering the council tax scheme for a start.

 

[VIRII]

The old system of rates, and then the poll tax, and then the council tax under the Tories, all varied widely across different areas of the UK also though? The fact that this still happens is not in itself proof of Labour wrongdoing.

No Polltax was the same for everyone. That was what made it fair. If you were on the dole you did not have to pay it.
The Govt determines what each area is expected to raise by way of local tax, deducts business rates received and tops up accordingly.
It is the Govt who decide effectively exactly what each areas council tax is going to be. Didn't you know that ?
They do this by setting a formula share for the area.

 

[MATTeL]

was just going to post the same , folks who were around at the time will remember her very differently

I remember my milk going and you know what, I didn't care. I drank milk at home and the stuff at school was always warm.

As for Thatcher, we certainly were a more powerful nation on the world stage, the PC brigade would have been shoved off the white cliffs of Dover along with the whingers.

For the win though has to be Operation Nimrod, when told that it could be done silently at night without she told them she wanted a demonstration that the UK was not to be messed with.

 

[Sequoia]

It really frustrates me when people do this. Basically saying;

"im older than you, therefore i'm right"

To me, it just means the argument is over because they cannot think of any valid points or counter arguments

I think what he's getting at when he asks that isn't my age, but whether I was resident in the UK. Dirtydog thinks I'm another poster under a different name, and one that was living outside the UK during that time. That question has been asked and answered before, though, both by myself and the Dons, and I'm not going down that route again.

Dirtydog, I was paying Poll Tax then, I'm paying Council Tax now. Beyond that, no comment.

 

[VIRII]

The small number of people who would be in a position to do that, no doubt do it already.

I don't know how much income taxes would need to rise but I doubt it would be much - perhaps a few pence. I would expect billions to be saved in the cost of administering the council tax scheme for a start.

It is going ot be more than that, my council tax is set to rise from £1500 to £2300 at the rebanding. Of course the dole scrounger scum in identical houses with no income and 4 kids by 4 fathers will pay ...... nothing.

 

[dirtydog]

I think what he's getting at when he asks that isn't my age, but whether I was resident in the UK. Dirtydog thinks I'm another poster under a different name, and one that was living outside the UK during that time. That question has been asked and answered before, though, both by myself and the Dons, and I'm not going down that route again.

Dirtydog, I was paying Poll Tax then, I'm paying Council Tax now. Beyond that, no comment.

Just asking! My mistake then

 

[VIRII]

But its not just Labour that does that - for many years (it may still be the case now), Wandsworth Council had the lowest Council tax in the country - it was always used by the Tories as an exmaple of how low CT (and before that, Poll tax) could be.....

A few years ago i moved house 100 yards down the street, but in doing so moved from Wandsworth to Richmond - it was noticable (painfully so...) how much council tax could change over such a short distance, for two councils who are providing the same services.....

The system of allocating funds to areas was different then. Councils had more direct control over what they charged, now it is effectively controlled by Govt not local Govt.

 

[dirtydog]

It is going ot be more than that, my council tax is set to rise from £1500 to £2300 at the rebanding. Of course the dole scrounger scum in identical houses with no income and 4 kids by 4 fathers will pay ...... nothing.

But they don't pay anything now... and as for how much tax would need to rise, it wouldn't need to be all income tax, it could be a mixture. The point is it would be from central taxation (PAYE, NI, fuel duties, cigarettes, drink etc etc) rather than a specific and costly-to-administer local tax.

 

[VIRII]

what evaluation bracket are you in? where i live ranges from 824 to over 2500

found these figures on a website

Durham on the left, National Average on the right

Band A £857.33 £809.37
Band B £1,000.22 £944.26
Band C £1,143.11 £1,079.16
Band D £1,286.00 £1,214.05
Band E £1,571.78 £1,483.84
Band F £1,857.56 £1,753.63
Band G £2,143.33 £2,023.42
Band H £2,572.00 £2,428.10

Band D I think.

The point is what do I get for my money ? Very little, what more do I get for my money than somonein Band A ? Nothing. So why should I pay more for it ?

 

[VIRII]

But they don't pay anything now... and as for how much tax would need to rise, it wouldn't need to be all income tax, it could be a mixture. The point is it would be from central taxation (PAYE, NI, fuel duties, cigarettes, drink etc etc) rather than a specific and costly-to-administer local tax.

No because they are lolling about in their lovely free council house.

 

[dirtydog]

No because they are lolling about in their lovely free council house.

Well that's a different argument The point is that under my favoured system you wouldn't be paying other people's share that you don't currently pay. Whether under council tax or poll tax, those people would pay nothing anyway.

 

[Visage]

Band D I think.

The point is what do I get for my money ? Very little, what more do I get for my money than somonein Band A ? Nothing. So why should I pay more for it ?

But thats inherent in the nature of any progressive tax system.....why should someone who earns 100k pay 40% tax when (it could be argued) they use less of the states resources than someone who earns 10k.....

Its the paradox inherent in 'From each according to his means to each according to his needs'......

 

[Visage]

The system of allocating funds to areas was different then. Councils had more direct control over what they charged, now it is effectively controlled by Govt not local Govt.

Yes, but lets say the government moved to a more equitable system.

When i lived in wandsworth, Band D Council tax was about 4/500 quid (band D).

The average is what, 1000 quid?

Can you imagine if Wandsworth went to the average? You wouldnt get headlines saying 'Labour puts right Tory bias', would you? You'd get 'Labour doubles council tax'.....

 

[VIRII]

But thats inherent in the nature of any progressive tax system.....why should someone who earns 100k pay 40% tax when (it could be argued) they use less of the states resources than someone who earns 10k.....

Its the paradox inherent in 'From each according to his means to each according to his needs'......

We have progressive income tax. Council tax has no relation to ability to pay.
Polltax was totally fair, a single set amount for each adult, a low amount at that.
It is similar with cars - the tax is on fuel but all have a road tax. No riots there.

 

[dirtydog]

Polltax was totally fair, a single set amount for each adult, a low amount at that.

It wasn't a 'low' amount for those on low wages.

 

[VIRII]

It wasn't a 'low' amount for those on low wages.

As with council tax they could get reduced poll tax. So no different in that respect.

 

[VIRII]

Yes, but lets say the government moved to a more equitable system.

When i lived in wandsworth, Band D Council tax was about 4/500 quid (band D).

The average is what, 1000 quid?

Can you imagine if Wandsworth went to the average? You wouldnt get headlines saying 'Labour puts right Tory bias', would you? You'd get 'Labour doubles council tax'.....

Wandsworth would have got an equal share of help and by being careful with its spending kept tax low.
Is there something wrong with that ? Should councils not be looking to charge us less by being efficient ?

What happens now is that those that were efficient get less help and so have to put tax up rather than pass the benefits to their area. No incentive to be efficient - typical labour.

 

[dirtydog]

As with council tax they could get reduced poll tax. So no different in that respect.

Wrong actually, if you were in full time work but on low wages you didn't get a reduction. And it was before the days of minimum wage as well. You also can't get a council tax reduction if you earn minimum wage today even though someone on £10k a year is hardly well off.

 

[VIRII]

Wrong actually, if you were in full time work but on low wages you didn't get a reduction. And it was before the days of minimum wage as well. You also can't get a council tax reduction if you earn minimum wage today even though someone on £10k a year is hardly well off.

It is still far more fair than council tax.