What did maggie do?

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hmm, to the very best of my recollection the coal mines were earmarked for closure before it all kicked off with the unions, because it was considerably less expensive to import coal from South Africa, although im pretty sure this emerged some time after the fact. It is believed, but not confirmed, that this (and privatisation of some public companies) was part of the motivation behind the trade unions reforms.
But the good things that come from this we are seeing today, she did lay the foundations for the economic prosperity we are experiencing at the moment (which may well be a false security).
 
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locutus12 said:
im more concearned with maggies later efforts....


Pole tax,
housing crash,
and the small matter of £110 million she made of smuggling arms into iraq inside oil barrels 6 months before the gulf war started...

its strange how some scandels are well known but nothing ever comes of them, there just accepted for what they are :/


ROFL I can see her packing those weapons in personally.
Got a link for the accusation ?
Now who was it that funded the Polaris Nuke programme and how many people in his Govt knew about it ..... oooooh naughty.

Housing crash was a result of market forces and probably because of the ERM and Europe. But I already mentioned the ERM.
 
locutus12 said:
im more concearned with maggies later efforts....

Pole tax,

Ooh that sounds nasty :D

Well, with the unions slowly making a comeback, will be interesting to see what people think of so called 'new' labour. Once Gordon Brown get's Tony's job, I think we'll all be in for a rough ride :(
 
dirtydog said:
She sowed the seeds with her council house policy. A 'double whammy' of selling off existing council housing and not building new stock.

What is wrong with selling off council houses ?
Why should we support non workers cradle to grave with housing and benefits ?

Take a look at council estates (those that still exist) would you want to live on one ? Sold off estates (like the one I live on) seem to be somewhat nicer places to live as people who own their home seem to take more pride in it and the area.
 
Feek said:
She stole my milk. Really.

Nasty nasty horrid woman, I really can't believe what I'm seeing here. Without checking ages of posters, I'd put my bet that a lot of those weren't actually around when she was in power.

K.


was just going to post the same , folks who were around at the time will remember her very differently :mad:
 
VIRII said:
What is wrong with selling off council houses ?
Why should we support non workers

Pardon? How is the former related to the latter? Council housing used to go to working people, and in some cases still does. My parents got a council house in 1978 and both of them worked full time, for the entire time they lived there (eight years). Our neighbours also worked.
 
Rotty said:
was just going to post the same , folks who were around at the time will remember her very differently :mad:

Agreed.


On a side note some people don't seem to have a clue about what went and goes on with the unions(they were to militant/stupid back in the 70's) but the miners were on strike as their jobs were lost they were fighting to try and keep the pits open.

The Heathrow strike recently was brought on by the catering staff(the ex BA catering staff that still work there) being locked into their canteen, new contracts being put in front of them(cutting wages by a third, reducing sick benifits and cutting holidays) and then given two minutes to sign the new contracts. When they refused bouncers were brought in and they were forcably removed from the premises. While they were outside the new staff that had been employed to replace them were bussed in in front of them, these staff had been training at Stanstead and Luton airport for the two previous months. It was all carfully planned to get rid of the staff and riot police were even waiting as they were removed from the building. The BA staff in the same union went on strike to try and support these people as the used to be their colleagues before they were sold of. I'm not supporting what happened but that gives a more accurate picture of what happened than "the unions strike for more money because they're gready".
 
Because we all know anyone who has lived in a council house, past future or present is of course - unemployed. Do you fail to see why some people could be offended by that comment?
 
Selling off the councill houses destroyed communities in this country, the poorer areas which once had the salt of the earth now have charvers which are there because housing associations bough entire council estates up and filled them with scum.

Maggie contributed massivily to todays selfish society :(
 
DoCoMo said:
eh?? You'd rather pay a tax per head instead of per household?
Weren't there some really bad riots over the poll tax?
Yes, and yes.

What is so special about having a tax per household when it's based on a totally abitrary valuation of the property, and bears little or no relation to either the utilisation by that household of services provided, or the number of people in that household able to contribute.

For instance, assume two 4 bed houses next door to each other. One has two pensioners living on fixed incomes, in the house they've been in for 50 years. The other has two working parents and three working teenage kids.

The first property has fixed pension income. The second has five working incomes. And which has generates more work for local councils?

Any tax should reflect the ability to pay. Whether it be council tax or poll tax, provision needs to be made to exempt kids, people in full-time education, the very low paid, etc. Providing that is done, what's wrong with anyone with an income making a contribution to the cost of providing the services they benefit from?

The poll tax was badly handled (appallingly badly, in fact) but was inherently fairer than the council tax, PROVIDED adequate provision was made as described above.
 
dirtydog said:
If you accept that the closure of the mines was motivated by politics (to whatever degree) then we're in agreement I think. I've already acknowledged that union powers needed curbing, but in the specific case of the mines the government's judgement was coloured by wanting to get revenge for being ejected from power in 1974.
I don't agree with that interpretation.

The original proposal was to close mines that were uneconomic or, in some cases, worked out or very nearly so. The NUM decided to take on the government and oppose ANY closures, on principle, because the Socialist leadership of the NUM saw mines, and other industries, as jobs programs where employment was the issue and entirely unrelated to production. And they saw the propesed closures as a chance to take on Thatcher and the Tory government.

The war between the miners (or to be more accurate, SOME miners) and the government was political to the extent that the NUM leadership were working on the basis of their philosophy, and tothe extent that the government saw what happened last time and were determined not to make the same mistakes again.

And why shouldn't they? It is not the perogative of any union, or unions, to determine to bring down the elected government because they disagree with policy. If the NUM leadership wanted the country run a different way, they should have damn well stood for Parliament, got elected (if they could) and done things that way. Instead, they tried to use Union muscle to foist their political beliefs on the rest of the country.

Which brings up the point that there were significant portions of the mining community that did not support the NUM. The Nottinghamshire miners and the breakaway UDM come to mind. And nowhere was the mining dispute more bitter than in Nottinghamshires villages where NUM pickets descended like locusts to intimidate their Nottinghamshire counterparts. It is STILL a rather sore subject in many of those villages today.

The proposals to close mines was FAR more limited that the closures that ended up happening. Why? Two main factors. Firstly, as soon as you stop maintaining mines, they tend to flood. Once they get past a certain point, the cost and practical difficulties involved in getting them back into production are prohibitive. A fair number of the mines that closed only closed because of Union action. They weren't scheduled for closure ... at least, not while they were productive and profitable.

But "profitable" brings up the second point. The cost of imported coal dropped, and that changed much of the economics. Whether there are political arguments for keeping a minimg industry going despite it being cheaper to import coal than dig it up here is another matter. But when you have a privatised power generation industry, and they can buy coal and import from abroad cheaper than they can get the home grown stuff, it's hard to argue they should continue to buy home grown stuff.

I don't accept that the government's actions were dictated by "revenge" for '74. But their actions were sure as hell taking that event into account, and Maggie learned lessons from it. And, after all, only an idiot would not have done so. So unlike '74, Maggie was ready for the NUM ..... though as I said before, only barely. It was, at a couple of points during the dispute, a VERY close run thing if stocks would hold out.
 
locutus12 said:
im more concearned with maggies later efforts...



The fairest personal taxation going. Everyone pays for the services they use and not just home owners like you have with Council Tax, which is a far more unfair tax. It was levied at too high a rate and that was the problem, couple with riots and an ever closer election.
housing crash

Fair enough, but is Maggie alone to blame for that ? VIRII quite rightly mentions market forces and European monetray systems which were not compatable with the British economy.

and the small matter of £110 million she made of smuggling arms into iraq inside oil barrels 6 months before the gulf war started...

I know nothing of that, any links ?
 
Sequoia said:
Any tax should reflect the ability to pay. Whether it be council tax or poll tax, provision needs to be made to exempt kids, people in full-time education, the very low paid, etc. Providing that is done, what's wrong with anyone with an income making a contribution to the cost of providing the services they benefit from?

The poll tax was badly handled (appallingly badly, in fact) but was inherently fairer than the council tax, PROVIDED adequate provision was made as described above.

The poll tax resulted in the two pensioner household living on the breadline in a cheap flat paying double what the millionaire up the road in a mansion paid. That was what got people's backs up funnily enough.
 
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Von Smallhausen said:
Fair enough, but is Maggie alone to blame for that ?

She is personally responsible for the council housing policy which contributed to it. Also she was PM during Nigel Lawson's reign as Chancellor and he certainly contributed to it.
 
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