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What do gamers actually think about Ray-Tracing?
- Thread starter Purgatory
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Soldato
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I'm not talking about political agenda in China. They just bring in the capital, open the studio, hire locally and let them do their thing (as you were saying, chinese people buying regardless of quality if it's made by them) => profits either way (good or bad).No big companies like these do "political agenda" for the sake of it - it's always chasing after more monies. Seems they chose badly, ergo it's incompetence IMHO.
Chinese would never let the western leftist agenda appear in their games, though - it's pretty much illegal there.
Debatable. It added up to it, another incompetent/wrong choice in addition to the above (as in, part of the same pattern of incompetency) - both things aimed at some tiny minority of the market and that was the wrong choice when they are after more monies.
It's a well scalable game that works on variety of hardware, including mainstream of that time, whilst not looking like undercooked potato and most of all it's actually a good game. Plus, well optimised, as devs knew what they're doing. Graphics by itself had very little to do with anything there IMHO.
Switch 2 is coming and... it's still going to be way behind all other handhelds with performance. Most of Nintendo consoles were underperforming and most sold really well but also games on them sell really well still. Then, we have CP2077 which still sold nearly 4 milion copies on PS4, which is another badly outdated piece of hardware - people liked the game, graphics didn't matter much to them, as long as it's playable (and eventually it became playable apparently). As I said many times earlier, if gameplay is good and game is good, people will play it - as long as it works sensibly well on their hardware.
That's a backwards way of looking on it.First - nobody cares what's easier for the studio, it's their problem, not ours. They have hundreds of milion of USD budgets too, and definitely do not lack resources. Different thing when looking at indie studios, but they manage just fine. Most of all, studios should make a good game, good gameplay, then see if they can also dress it up nicely for the target audience. Not start with best possible graphics and pray someone will buy it, like AAA industry does for a while now - as this just doesn't work at all in capitalism.
With the rest I don't understand as you kinda contradict yourself... If the graphics don't matter to people (which I don't believe is true), and tolerate low performance (rather forced upon them), then is easy for those gamers to just play muddy, blurry, low fps messes, it doesn't matter. Keep and old, beat up display, old computer or console and play on that. TI videos are totally pointless and he's losing time getting his game visually to a state that gamers don't really care about. As soon as you advocate against this, then graphics and performance does matter and at that point we're talking more about a degree to which those two are important.
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RT has another massive boost with all RTX cards thanks to Mega Geometry, but only Alan Wake 2 is being updated to support it initially because AW2 supports Mesh Shaders and it seems to use bits of that system.
Given how long Mesh Shaders adoption took to see light of day in an actual game (only AW2..........) it's unlikely that RTXMG will see actual game beyond AW2 for several more years unless devs suddenly realise its rather massive potential. Though because UE5 is supporting it, and basically everyone is now using UE5 now, perhaps this adoption will happen sooner rather than later.
Details here:
Footage:
Who doesn't want better quality visuals with +10x performance and 100x more path traced triangles.
Given how long Mesh Shaders adoption took to see light of day in an actual game (only AW2..........) it's unlikely that RTXMG will see actual game beyond AW2 for several more years unless devs suddenly realise its rather massive potential. Though because UE5 is supporting it, and basically everyone is now using UE5 now, perhaps this adoption will happen sooner rather than later.
Details here:
Footage:
Who doesn't want better quality visuals with +10x performance and 100x more path traced triangles.
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No, you simply seem to be consistently not understanding the simple statement: gameplay first, graphics secondary (or lower). Good graphics by itself (ergo, lacking good gameplay) doesn't sell games, good games even with bad graphics sell well. I'm not sure what's so hard to grasp here, especially with multiple examples stated.
That said, we are moving in circles so time to cut it.
That's pretty much same as showing RT etc. with 2000 series GPUs - people bought it on the promise but till any of that was actually in games, these were too slow and too old and 3000 series were on the shelves. With such new things it's usually best to wait a generation. Generally I don't but things on a promise anymore but on what's actually available on the time of purchase.
By the way, the neutral faces look so uncanny valley, I'd instantly turn that off - freaks me out. It's just a weird looking deep fake IMHO. Plus, in the shown demo it even changed ethnicity of the character and the face to a completely different one - that could be feature to make some people very happy or the opposite.
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Soldato
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So what I said myself: those that can't run it full settings, can do so at lower settings and res. No point optimizing and getting stuck at the lower end since gameplay first for them.No, you simply seem to be consistently not understanding the simple statement: gameplay first, graphics secondary (or lower). Good graphics by itself (ergo, lacking good gameplay) doesn't sell games, good games even with bad graphics sell well. I'm not sure what's so hard to grasp here, especially with multiple examples stated.
That said, we are moving in circles so time to cut it.
Of course, game being good and all that.
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That said, we are moving in circles so time to cut it.
I sense a pattern here. Say anything and everything to one up in your posts then encourage others move along when you contradict yourself and refuse to back up any of your claims. I agree to move on, it's futile having a balanced discussion with you.
They are better than most modelled faces, particularly Bethesda games, but I would say Horizon is better for an overall cohesive look. These neural faces give me the impression they're masks and don't look like they're part of the original game engine, like a bitmap in 3d space
Cool, then move on - I'm simply tired repeating myself after dozens of posts about the same thing, going in circles. Or in simpler language, if I try to open the door and it's locked, I don't just try to unlock it by talking to it for hours long, expecting it to magically understand me and unlock - especially when few other people tried the same and gave up on it too - I move on.
They are masks, I can't see any difference between this and standard deep fake in how it's implemented. Which is why it looks so unnatural.
But that's exactly what I talk about - if the game can be scaled down to run sensibly on the mainstream hardware (not ancient, mainstream - 3060+, not 2060 and older) then sure, go ahead, add more fancy stuff to it for the higher end. Problem is that many AAA games don't run well on 3060 anymore, it's not even fitting their min. requirements. Which is where proper optimisation helps - not only game can run on 3060 class GPU but even on 4090 it runs much better than cinematic 24fps in 1440p (before upscaling etc.), without stutter and other bad artefacts. Meanwhile, the last 2 things happen a lot in UE5 engine games - and that's on lazy devs.So what I said myself: those that can't run it full settings, can do so at lower settings and res. No point optimizing and getting stuck at the lower end since gameplay first for them.
Of course, game being good and all that.
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Soldato
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To have a clearer view, what games don't run sensibly well on 3060?
Just toggle it off in game.
I should've actually mentioned 4060 more than 3060 - depending on how much vRAM game uses, 3060 wins in quite a few titltes (as few benchmarkers shown in quite a few modern titles - e.g. ) by the shear amount of vRAM. 4060 in Indiana Jones is... not good, for example, loads of stutter etc. Same in quite a few other new titles, including Harry Potter, which isn't even that new - just short on vRAM, which makes game unpleasant with stutter and textures looking like from 2000s popping in to existence in front of one's face. Using DLSS when short of vRAM often makes things even worse, as it needs vRAM to run too. FG is even worse offender with regards to vRAM use. PT is of course a killer of such cards, e.g. in the flagship CP2077, as even with DLSS they get 30FPS on 4060 and below that on 3060 - PT can't run properly on mainstream cards, only hybrid RT somewhat manages.
That aside, just to come back to optimisations, TI videos aren't the only ones showing what the problem is in many modern games with TAA on all effects, hence I suggest you check another example showing it very well:
Soldato
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In what level are issues with Indiana Jones? So far Vatican is the most vRAM hungry out of the 3 I've experienced (Jungle, Marshall College and Vatican). Turning down settings and restarting the game will start on lower vRAM usage (than just turning down/off settings), stay under 8GB (1080, DLSS Performance, FOV 105 and the rest set manually to low/off - some a bit higher) and runs smooth. Now it will have burst of up to 300-400MB/s disk read and regular 100-200 MB/s, so you better have it on a fast drive. 5800x3D is fully 100% loaded on all 8 cores and 16 threads in Task Manager (around 80+ with Riva Tuner), but the only moment when it stutters is with auto save and perhaps a moment or two with the odd loading/shader/transversal/whatever. It does not sttuter all the time. Worth mentioning than even with all on low, the quality of some textures (in Indiana, of course), still stays rather high visually, perhaps akin to around high/ultra on older games.
Hogwarts is is just Hogwarts, that one stutters mostly on the main castle no matter the hardware. Drop settings to stay under 8GB vRAM and you'll be mostly fine.
CB77 also can can be kept within the 8GB and will be fine.
TAA doesn't really matter, gamers don't care about graphics that much or else they'll buy a (sufficiently) faster hardware.
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