Just because you Capitalize FACT doesn't make it so. The only FACT we know is that we don't know why or how we are here.
WHAT, in God's name
- Thread starter Dingo
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Just because you Capitalize FACT doesn't make it so. The only FACT we know is that we don't know why or how we are here.
Caporegime
Yes, that is a FACT.
Combat squirrel said:
No, that is not a FACT, that is a BELIEF or an OPINION.
Combat squirrel said:
I believe yes, you believe no, let's call the whole thing off.
Combat squirrel said:
Animals aren't capable of sentient though. They can't believe in anything. This is irrelevant.
Combat squirrel said:
Or perhaps God would exist, but with no "crazy minds" to believe in him.
Soldato
No, that's what you believe to be fact. It's not something that can be proven.
Hasn't this been discussed?
Combat squirrel said:
Who knows? I certainly don't...
You can try as hard as you like to disprove the existence of god with science, but you're not going to manage it.
Just watched God's Camp on Channel 4 and cannot believe that the American people are becoming so entrenched in the Dogma of the Church!!.
What ther hell happened to the last 50 years of enlightenment??
Quotes of "Harry Potter is a Devil's conduit" et al, and I thought the Islamic Nation was backward, with their need for Immans to tell them what to believe, and how to think!!.
Is there a conspiracy of the "religious nutters" to re-introduce a "you are safe with the Lord" lifestyle?. Does President Bush actually believe in God or have his aides, along with those of the ruling Muslim faith, drawn up lines of engagement for the next 100 years?.
The sooner we eradicate Religion the better in my opinion.......the sowers of bad seed will undoubtately "crucify" robots next.......and of course make them Jewish!!.
FFS, when will this petty "My God is better than yours" vitriole end.
Anyone with a anti-Religion bomb please contact me immediately......I will pay the asking price to end this load of ***** today!!
Fully star your swear words
Gilly
Did anyone else find that quite hard to read?
Anyway, if religion makes you happy then that's fine and I think they should be left alone, posts like this maybe more ignorant than the people who believe in religion?
And you have proof of this because... Oh wait, you don't, it's just your faith and your beliefs.
The fact that we are insignificant and our understanding is so far from complete is the reason why any viewpoint like this can never be anything but. There are no facts here, there are just different opinions based on what different people believe in.
Aren't all extremists rants with no logic behind them hard to follow.
Soldato
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Basically explains the answer to that one, I may change the religious one to include 'use new found evidience to skew and twist original idea, while still ignoring the fact its contradicting your original idea.
Sorry mate I know your religious, you have stated it above, but its been proven many times that -some- religious people and in fact thinking about it religious leaders, change there minds when contradicting evidence appears, when something right in front of them makes them look abit silly and make them blush. To then continue to follow this idea, or support it lowers my opinion of that individual, because they follow someone else's idea, when they are fully able to see something doesn't add up.
And dude, thats the beauty of science, it doesn't pretend to be stuck on one idea, it fully supports change, us 'scientists' as you label us only believe in the truth of what we can see, we dont 'believe' in science.
The downfall of science shows the easiest way something could happen. Not the true way. there is no reason why science and faith can't go hand in hand and many people do.
Caporegime
Any religious person with half a brain knows that religion and science are two entirely different domains, and doesn't let one impinge on the other. Nothing that science discovers makes me question my belief in God, because the two are entirely different. Science explains what we see around us in a rational fashion. Religion explains why we are here and what we are supposed to do now that we are here.
So don't try to trap me with some witty JPEG. My faith is strong enough to withstand the wrath of 4chan.
Soldato
And us religious nutters don't "believe" in religion. It's just something that makes sense. You don't have to simply "believe" in a particular doctrine either, many people merely have the opinion that not everything is suitable for scientific analysis, which is the opposite of what you seem to claim.
And what's to say that what you can see is "truth" anyway? Is it truth because science tells you so? If so, then you're doing science wrong.
I'm a scientist too, the two aren't mutually exclusive.
edit: thrice rebuked
Science is very stuck on one idea, it's the scientific method and the assumptions involved within it. The faith is in the method as providing something other than prediction, rather than the results of the application of the method.
Soldato
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The image isn't something to have faith or believe in, do you own a camera? do you have faith or 'believe' the images it takes? It doesn't quite fit does it ?
All that image is, NASA built a space probe (Voyager 1 or 2, cant remember), stuck a camera on it, and thats the image it took, where's your argument with that ? NASA made it up ?
A good point to a degree, but at least now that image and other understanding we know of gives us a road to take, a point in the right direction, is the earth flat ? NO, *make note, is it one of many spherical objects in the universe ? YES *make note.......and so on and so forth, to just dismiss what we have discovered as a view point is not going about understanding our place in the universe, dont just sit here and ponder it, we as a human race should get off our butts and find out more.
The image isn't something to have faith or believe in, do you own a camera? do you have faith or 'believe' the images it takes? It doesn't quite fit does it ?
All that image is, NASA built a space probe (Voyager 1 or 2, cant remember), stuck a camera on it, and thats the image it took, where's your argument with that ? NASA made it up ?
I was talking about your statements of 'facts', not the picture.
Absolutely, but it doesn't follow that the scientific method is the best or only tool to do that.
And dude, thats the beauty of science, it doesn't pretend to be stuck on one idea, it fully supports change, us 'scientists' as you label us only believe in the truth of what we can see, we dont 'believe' in science.
Nicely put. I consider scientifically minded atheists to be likely early adopters on the curve of mankinds intellectual development.
In general, you can't get angry that some of your mates still buy vinyl while you've been downloading music for years. They like vinyl, the covers are nice and the scratchy sound gives them a nice warm feeling. (The only problem is when the vinyl guys start kicking the asses of the CD guys.) There's an inevitability though, they'll all see sense eventually and go digital. That said it can be a bit tacky to bang the drum for atheism too loud, kind of like ipod marketing.
It must be nice to have faith, in the nice that everything will be alright in the end because the fairies will look after me, sort of a way.
sorry, too much coffee, rant over
Soldato
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Religion does NOT explain why we are here and what we are supposed to do now that we are here. It pretends to have all the answers.
Thats the only difference, this is not an opinion either, science hunts for the answer and does not rest until it is found, religion pretends everything is answered already and wants to keep everything the same, no progression is permitted.
And thats another thing im not out to invoke an annoyed reaction in anyone, im not 'trapping' you with a JPG, it just depicts what my side of this discussion was trying to get across. Your faith my not be moved, but hopefully your logical mind may think about all the times some religious idea was changed when it didn't suit anymore.
It just seems to me, science changes to include the new and discovered, to take in new information and progress. Religion either ignores what's been found, or trys to make out it new about {insert newly discovered thing here} was part of gods will all along.
Soldato
Do the people here who believe in God, and follow religion, Believe the Adam and Eve story?
Man of Honour
There are quite a few different religions so I'd suspect that the answer is no, I'm not sure what the Qu'ran has to say about Adam and Eve for instance.
Soldato
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Im saying the FACT because that picture is about as real as we can get of viewing the earth from a good way away, i.e. taking a step back and looking at the bigger picture. Id bet my legs and arms that if we sent another probe out, it would still be the same though, earth a spec in the sky.
Now this is interesting, the 'scientific method' point. Lets strip away its name for a second and understand what it is. In short, observing and looking at something in as much detail as possible, then testing it, retesting it, and looking at it again until we understand it. Whats wrong with this ? and surely the most logical and useful way of understanding things ? If one day in the future, billions of trillions of years in the future humans eventually understood everything there is to know and had an extended period of time where new things were not discovered, id bet we would also have the answer as to why were here. So small steps and chipping away at the old block of knowledge is a good way to go and is making progress surely ?
Science does not explain why we are here either. It simply gives the simplest mechanism that could describe how we could have come to be here, which isn't the same thing at all.
Science doesn't hunt for an answer, it works for the ability to predict, again that's not the same thing.
Religion also does no such thing, some specific religions do, but that's not the same thing at all. Are you saying that non-organised religions, or religious paths that encourage you to question and understand to achieve a better understanding do not encourage progression? You seem to be fixated on the Judeo-christian religions (Judaism, christianity and Islam) and implying that all religions work the same way.
But it's horribly slanted, it's not actually addressing anyone's position in this thread, it's just expressing your distaste for what you've decided religion is, even though many religions are not like that at all.
Science predicts via simple mechanisms, it very rarely conflicts directly with religion. Only those who either believe in a literal interpretation of a religious text, or an absolute interpretation of the scientific method as their faith generate such conflicts.
Caporegime
Christianity (which I can confidently speak on) teaches that God created us because he wants to. That sounds like an answer to the why point. It then goes on to teach what's expected of us. I'm not sure what you think you've refuted here.
Combat squirrel said:
No, science hunts for a model that works to predict what will happen next time. That's not the same as a comprehensive answer.
Combat squirrel said:
That's a nice straw man, but I'm not sure what progress you're hoping for. Some religious sects would seek to stop scientific progress, but most aren't fussed.
Combat squirrel said:
1) If you're not trying to trap me, don't post pictures that are clearly intended to be inflammatory.
2) I'm not sure which religious ideas you think have been changed when they no longer suit, or why you think such changes aren't reasonable.
Combat squirrel said:
Religion would adapt for new discoveries in the field of religion. Why should it adapt for new discoveries in the field of science?
I think someone needs to draw you a Venn diagram...