What would you call an average wage?

[Lopéz]

This is true - and those people will have to accept that they are less commercially valuable, and will need to accept a lower wage and the lower quality of life that results from that.

But most people can absolutely upskill, they just can't be bothered.

 

[Lopéz]

Not sure i buy into that. You can always learn no matter the age. If you want to talk about time/commitment to do that then sure but I don't see 'getting old' as a valid excuse especially in first world countries.

I interviewed someone last week.

Late 30s, not formally educated as such but a very eloquent and obviously switched on guy. Been working in the public sector dealing with people for the last 15 years in a semi skilled manual role.
Made redundant and became a full time father, decided he wanted to restart his career and enrolled on a course to get himself some foundation skills and got his first certification.

We offered him a role as a trainee with a clear progression path, starting on 22k.
He turned us down as he had an offer from a similar company to us that focuses more on non prolific organisations, which was important to him.

So age isn't a blocker to a decent career if you can study and apply yourself, and neither is experience if you can display transferable life skills.

EDIT
If he's not on 35k within 2 years I'll eat my hat.

 

[moon man]

Funny how the staff car park here doesn't reflect this apparent struggle of these poor poverty stricken people in Cornwall ,pretty much like a new to 3yrs old car showroom ,then my 52 plate skoda in the corner ,sure most are not mortgage free like me but load themselves with trinkets ,maybe they pop sown the food bank in the bmw ,but as i said entry level take home about £1580 mnth to me this is more than enough ,mortgage 0 water rates £17 mnth my o2 phone contact £6 mnth ,car ,peanuts mnth
the sea and the countryside are free these are my toys

 

[Rroff]

Not sure i buy into that. You can always learn no matter the age. If you want to talk about time/commitment to do that then sure but I don't see 'getting old' as a valid excuse especially in first world countries.

It is a very varied story I'm not saying simply age is a barrier but there are some in circumstances where it isn't on their side.

This is the thing with this story - increasingly there is a squeeze towards the edges and there is always going to be some people there.

Funny how the staff car park here doesn't reflect this apparent struggle of these poor poverty stricken people in Cornwall ,pretty much like a new to 3yrs old car showroom ,then my 52 plate skoda in the corner ,sure most are not mortgage free like me but load themselves with trinkets ,maybe they pop sown the food bank in the bmw ,but as i said entry level take home about £1580 mnth to me this is more than enough ,mortgage 0 water rates £17 mnth my o2 phone contact £6 mnth ,car ,peanuts mnth
the sea and the countryside are free these are my toys

The finance on new cars is silly these days - related to that it has been an interesting transition in the town I grew up in - when I was a kid the big houses on the edge of town would have brand new BMWs, Porsches, etc. and the mid-terrace a 10 year old Ford Escort, etc. now the mid-terraces have a recent plate BMW, Audis, etc. and the big houses more often have older Toyotas, etc.

 

[moon man]

yeah this is what i see walking down Newquay's millionaires street riverside crescent .3m house but battered car

 

[Lopéz]

Here's a great example of a well paid entry level trainee job :

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/foru...software-engineering-trainees-again.18933166/

Sod not even hitting 19k in a first line support role when you can do something like that.

 

[Rroff]

The thing I notice from a personal perspective - the job I'm doing 15+ years ago people doing it would reasonably afford a 3 bedroom house and support a family - these days you'd struggle like crazy - like 10 grand a year short of sensibly affording the house (at least around here) never mind a family. I'm OK - there is a lot more I could be doing if I needed more money, or plenty I could do to make my money go further, but I don't need it and value the work/life balance more while it is an option. But I see other people around me increasingly struggle.

 

[Richie]

... but as i said entry level take home about £1580 mnth to me this is more than enough ,mortgage 0 water rates £17 mnth my o2 phone contact £6 mnth ,car ,peanuts mnth
the sea and the countryside are free these are my toys

I recently worked out that when I retire, £1500-£1600/month take home (today's money) would be more than sufficient to live... The issue is the mortgage on top currently

So whilst I agree with you on that point, some good luck and timing for buying a house can also help which is something that young people don't really have now in given how expensive houses are even if they had an old, paid for banger as a car.

 

[413x]

It's the damn mortgage that does it. And why house price rises are unsustainable.
More, its the renting.

My mortgage alone for probably the 'median' house is 850. 3 bed. Detached.
Rent in a 1 bed flat.. 550-600.
Getting that house is a slog

On a decent wage it's OK. But saving for it wasn't. But you have that burden for 30 years.

Crank it down to 25 and its 900+
Let's say you get your house 30-35yo
And you don't upgrade.

You're looking at paying that until retirement.
All of a sudden you need need that 35-50k wage to be comfortable.

It's not wages that are the problem. It's not even the mortgage cost. It's renting.

If you cash live at parents home until you own life isn't so bad. You can (even on a low wage) quite easily save for a mortgage. But if not you'll burn so much on rent your whole life is set back.


If cost of housing was half. Wages would not seem half as bad

 

[Angilion]

It's the damn mortgage that does it. And why house price rises are unsustainable.
More, its the renting. [..]

I agree with that. Rents are now often as high or higher than mortgage payments if you bought the place. So the only routes to owning a house are narrow. Inheritance either of a house or of enough money to be able to get a mortgage. Wealthy parents who can and will pay the deposit. A job that pays so well you can afford high rent and still have enough left over to save for a deposit. The high cost of a mortgage is a big factor, but the high cost of renting removes the option for a lot of people who could afford the cost of a mortgage.

When my father got his first civilian job, it was a decent entry level job. Nothing out of the ordinary. It could lead into a decent career path, but the pay at entry level was nothing more than OK. A reasonably nice house in a reasonably nice area in southeast England cost less than 2 years of that pay and rent was low enough to save a deposit in a couple of years.

When I got my first job, it was a low pay flunkey job. The pay was as low as possible. An adequate house in a reasonably nice area of a very cheap city cost about 2.5 years of that pay and rent was low enough to save a deposit in a few years.

Nowadays, it's not uncommon for a house to cost more than 10 years of the pay of an entry level job even if you're lucky enough to be able to get a full time contract and if you don't have someone else to house you, you'll never be able to save a deposit.

 

[413x]

I agree with that. Rents are now often as high or higher than mortgage payments if you bought the place....

Rent round here is way off the mortgage equivalent.
This house would likely cost 1200 ish to rent out. 1.5x the mortgage.
The 550 flat was the absolute cheapest in the area. It even had the electric only heating.
If had had it during work from home.. Well, dunno how would have done it

Anything OK would have been near mortgage territory.

 

[Tefal]

Not sure i buy into that. You can always learn no matter the age. If you want to talk about time/commitment to do that then sure but I don't see 'getting old' as a valid excuse especially in first world countries.

Not everyone has the same intelligence though.


What your saying is equivalent to “well anyone can reach a sub 10 second 100m if they just try hard enough!”

nope.


The average shelf stacker could never be a doctor etc. Learned knowledge is practically worthless in a skilled environment it’s the ability to apply it that counts
If all you needed was knowledge then Google should have made everyone a rocket scientist or neurosurgeon as they have the knowledge right there

 

[iamtheoneneo]

What your saying is equivalent to “well anyone can reach a sub 10 second 100m if they just try hard enough!”

nope.


The average shelf stacker could never be a doctor etc. Learned knowledge is practically worthless in a skilled environment it’s the ability to apply it that counts
If all you needed was knowledge then Google should have made everyone a rocket scientist or neurosurgeon as they have the knowledge right there

Why are you conflating different things?
Your physical attributes are not the same as mental learning for a start.
Your average shelf stacker could be a Dr, in fact many do become Doctors via the path of University.
I never said you could learn from Google, high end jobs require high end education which allows you to get that knowledge and also learn on how to apply it (that I agree with you on)

 

[Rroff]

Why are you conflating different things?
Your physical attributes are not the same as mental learning for a start.
Your average shelf stacker could be a Dr, in fact many do become Doctors via the path of University.
I never said you could learn from Google, high end jobs require high end education which allows you to get that knowledge and also learn on how to apply it (that I agree with you on)

I supervise the warehouse shift at work 2+ nights a week, some temp while at college or uni but most no matter how much they apply themselves will never become doctors and in many cases have limited potential beyond what they are already doing. Some could be doing considerably better but that is a minority.

 

[Jay85]

Why are you conflating different things?
Your physical attributes are not the same as mental learning for a start.
Your average shelf stacker could be a Dr, in fact many do become Doctors via the path of University.
I never said you could learn from Google, high end jobs require high end education which allows you to get that knowledge and also learn on how to apply it (that I agree with you on)

Where i work, im one of the more senior managers here and we get students part timing constantly. Most of which are foreign students who's parents paid £xxxxx for each semester. I'm not saying they're all idiots but i'd say 80% that come through us have little to no interest in learning and barely have the capacity to do it. They've had their hands held throughout life by parents and rely so heavily on them they can't do anything without them. I had one girl tell me she's only doing it because her parents made her work and study and it's the only way to gain access to their inheritance! It's such a waste of an opportunity where it could have been given to someone else who genuinely wants to learn and make something of themselves. We've had these students who openly admit they pay others to write their essays and dissertations just to pass and go home with a certification to prove they did it.... madness

 

[FoxEye]

Funny how the staff car park here doesn't reflect this apparent struggle of these poor poverty stricken people in Cornwall ,pretty much like a new to 3yrs old car showroom ,then my 52 plate skoda in the corner ,sure most are not mortgage free like me but load themselves with trinkets ,maybe they pop sown the food bank in the bmw ,but as i said entry level take home about £1580 mnth to me this is more than enough ,mortgage 0 water rates £17 mnth my o2 phone contact £6 mnth ,car ,peanuts mnth
the sea and the countryside are free these are my toys

You are aware that not everybody who lives in Cornwall is from Cornwall.

In fact Cornwall is a great place to observe the so-called "wealth gap". Sure there are Porsches and Ferraris and all sorts buzzing around.

There are also plenty of households that can't even afford a banger.

And there are (as someone else said) those who use finance somewhat irresponsibly.

However I sincerely doubt everybody working in a meat factory is rocking a BMW or the like. Or even most people. That sounds highly implausible to me, frankly. From looking our out own (council) car park, I can tell you there are plenty of old bangers there.

Unless, of course, we're talking about 10 year old BMWs that have been used and abused and pickup up for a couple grand. Because they aren't status symbols, they are cash sinks You may as well set your money on fire. But people do strange things.

 

[Orangeade]

To be honest I'm fairly jaded as we start even grads on 100k (after bonus). The more I work with people the more I realise that actually no not everyone is equal in terms of intelligence. I routinely get challenged by young pups a lot younger than me and lots are a lot smarter than me. I just happen to be a bit older hence why I am their boss.

 

[FoxEye]

To be honest I'm fairly jaded as we start even grads on 100k (after bonus). The more I work with people the more I realise that actually no not everyone is equal in terms of intelligence. I routinely get challenged by young pups a lot younger than me and lots are a lot smarter than me. I just happen to be a bit older hence why I am their boss.

This is the very definition of a humble brag

"I'm not the smartest person (at NASA) but I earn way over 100 grand!"

 

[Diddums]

My plumbers / electricians are on 36k. Add the callout rota to that and they're approaching 40k. Do a bit of overtime and 45-50k is possible. The industry is screaming for people at the moment, I get calls from recruiters almost every day asking if I know anyone looking for work. Basics are now moving up to 40k to reflect this.

I'm in a difficult spot atm, I'm ready to move up in the world and want more money, but my company is being careful. They're one of the best in the industry and have invested quite a bit in me so I don't really want to leave and give them the finger despite being able to make a significant jump in salary elsewhere.

 

[Orangeade]

This is the very definition of a humble brag

"I'm not the smartest person (at NASA) but I earn way over 100 grand!"

Haha I don't work at NASA, nothing so socially beneficial...and I'm definitely not smart just lucky.

And also it doesn't really solve life problems as my other posts have pointed out. My needs in life are extremely simple and I'm not flash and have no need to prove myself. I would trade it all in for some meaning and actual happiness.

Grass is always greener.