What’s going on with our justice system?

Vanquish-Storm said:
My quote of yours did not include what you had quoted.

Were the CPS not the prosecution in this?

“The prosecution withdrew the murder charge and offered no further evidence.”

How is it not murder?
Click to expand...
Because she is insane and lacks the mental capacity to be guilty of murder. I really don’t get the argument over the charge she has been found guilty of manslaughter a very serious charge and will likely spend the rest of her life in an institution.

the immigration blaming just hides the massive failings of mental health and social care in this case. Ignore where she came from (plenty of insane British people around) she shouldn’t have been walking the streets there needs to be a swift and thorough review and lessons learnt applied. If you just say she should never have been here you don’t fix the key system that allowed this to happen.
 
a1ex2001 said:
Because she is insane and lacks the mental capacity to be guilty of murder. I really don’t get the argument over the charge she has been found guilty of manslaughter a very serious charge and will likely spend the rest of her life in an institution.

the immigration blaming just hides the massive failings of mental health and social care in this case. Ignore where she came from (plenty of insane British people around) she shouldn’t have been walking the streets there needs to be a swift and thorough review and lessons learnt applied. If you just say she should never have been here you don’t fix the key system that allowed this to happen.
Click to expand...

I dont think the terminology of manslaughter or murder take into account mental capacity. It was murder, it was premeditated. Unless I am way off the mark.
 
The UK is a complete laughing stock all the arguements in here further my belief this country will be finnished in 100yrs. No one has even questioned why you should now pay for an Albanian child murderers care? Are you really that soft? The jail cost is 42k per year and the care she will need will be vastly more. Why are we paying this when she is Albanian?

People are argueing oh but if we deported her she could have killed an Albanian. Who cares if she does? That is thier own fault for letting her out in public. The UK is broke, £2 Trillion in debt and now paying for rapists and murderers in prison. Just deport her for Christs sake put her on a one way flight to Albania and bill the family and or Albania for the legal costs. But no lets care for her for a lifetime, Pay for court etc and then it will happen again in future. Seriously? You guys are partly guilty for future crime by not being hardline enough. Hanging her would save a fortune you can get hemp rope for a few quid.
 
Vanquish-Storm said:
I dont think the terminology of manslaughter or murder take into account mental capacity. It was murder, it was premeditated. Unless I am way off the mark.
Click to expand...
But the verdict does, there is no point pushing through a murder trial if it is obviously going to go diminished responsibility and land up as manslaughter anyway. The group of experts involved who clearly know more about this than any of us made this decision she will be in an institution for life I really don’t get the big deal.
 
a1ex2001 said:
But the verdict does, there is no point pushing through a murder trial if it is obviously going to go diminished responsibility and land up as manslaughter anyway. The group of experts involved who clearly know more about this than any of us made this decision she will be in an institution for life I really don’t get the big deal.
Click to expand...

Is she though?
 
Rofflay said:
The UK is a complete laughing stock all the arguements in here further my belief this country will be finnished in 100yrs. No one has even questioned why you should now pay for an Albanian child murderers care? Are you really that soft? The jail cost is 42k per year and the care she will need will be vastly more. Why are we paying this when she is Albanian?

People are argueing oh but if we deported her she could have killed an Albanian. Who cares if she does? That is thier own fault for letting her out in public. The UK is broke, £2 Trillion in debt and now paying for rapists and murderers in prison. Just deport her for Christs sake put her on a one way flight to Albania and bill the family and or Albania for the legal costs. But no lets care for her for a lifetime, Pay for court etc and then it will happen again in future. Seriously? You guys are partly guilty for future crime by not being hardline enough. Hanging her would save a fortune you can get hemp rope for a few quid.
Click to expand...

I'd like to know how much money you have personally put into the treasury through taxes over your lifetime.

People who make this argument I'd argue don't even pay their own way because to hold such a view you cannot be bright enough to be a top revenue earner who wears a Gucci belt. So maybe we should deport you to Albania too so you aren't a burden on the UK? I'm not being serious but you can see how your own argument is flawed. People who don't even pay much tax outraged at how tax money is spent even though they are net winners of the system.

She committed the crime here in the UK. It's our law of the land. Therefore her punishment should be carried out here.

A great example was the two women who went to holiday in Spain decided to jump on a flight to Peru iirc to smuggle cocaine into the UK or Spain. They were caught and then their lawyers wanted them deported to the UK to stay in a UK prison because they were UK citizens and the conditions of a prison in Peru were inhumane.

So are you holding the view that all UK criminals should be sent to the UK to be in a UK prison when they commit crimes abroad so we can pick up the bill?
 
The legal system is flawed for sure.
But this person has not pre meditated to kill that actual individual. They have had no reason to plan and concoct a situation specifically tailored to killing and ending the life of that person. So they have not murdered.
They are bat **** crazy and ******* wasted whoever was in the way at that time that suited their ******* crazy agenda.
Ideally then the justice system of the courts should rightfully take advice from professionals that may suggest - lock this ****** right up for a long time.

What is of further discussion is the massive amount of paranoid schizophrenics with serious drug abuse issues that are not being attended to but allowed in the local community with medication they are responsible to take themselves! Some to be fair are social work and care looked after so they must take medications prescribed.

Do we lock em all up? How can we? We have nowhere to put em! We have not got the staff!

But we have a duty to protect a citizen from a known risk. How to deal with extreme mental health? In an underfunded system?

Is not easy and legal reform is not easy but this was never pre meditated murder. It was a tragic casualty of humanity.
 
Vanquish-Storm said:
I dont think the terminology of manslaughter or murder take into account mental capacity. It was murder, it was premeditated. Unless I am way off the mark.
Click to expand...


I'm afraid you are. Mental capacity has been a feature since the M'Naghton Rule of around 1840. And that was after a trial of a man who set out to assassinate the Prime Minister. The reason for the rule is that insane people do not make rational choices, even if they appear to be considered.
 
Vanquish-Storm said:
Thank you for the explanation sir, so it is the CPS that have let the family down.
Click to expand...

On a side note I met my first CPS person a couple of weeks ago who came with a Detective.
I handed loads of 'evidence' to them for a case and listened to them going through it where the lady CPS person said there's not enough evidence.
Anyway, she sees a picture of me and my wife on the computer, recognises me so we both drop our masks for a second and we've known each other for years.
She begged me not to tell anybody what she does for a living because of backlashes like this case.
 
Vanquish-Storm said:
My quote of yours did not include what you had quoted.

Were the CPS not the prosecution in this?

“The prosecution withdrew the murder charge and offered no further evidence.”

How is it not murder?
Click to expand...

Murder requires premeditation.
Premeditation requires sanity.

It's how the law is defined. The legal definition of murder is the one that counts in the context of a trial.
 
Yes this is pretty terrible sentencing. Whilst I understand she's mentally ill, she has previously stabbed her own mother and on another occasion attacked her sister.

When the latest attack took place she had been off her meds for a month. She is clearly too dangerous to be allowed out and about when her illness causes such extreme violence.

Hopefully she'll never get out of the mental unit. I'd much rather she'd be locked up rather than have her her sat in a park with my 3 year old scootering past...
 
Psycho Sonny said:
I'd like to know how much money you have personally put into the treasury through taxes over your lifetime.

People who make this argument I'd argue don't even pay their own way because to hold such a view you cannot be bright enough to be a top revenue earner who wears a Gucci belt. So maybe we should deport you to Albania too so you aren't a burden on the UK? I'm not being serious but you can see how your own argument is flawed. People who don't even pay much tax outraged at how tax money is spent even though they are net winners of the system.

She committed the crime here in the UK. It's our law of the land. Therefore her punishment should be carried out here.

A great example was the two women who went to holiday in Spain decided to jump on a flight to Peru iirc to smuggle cocaine into the UK or Spain. They were caught and then their lawyers wanted them deported to the UK to stay in a UK prison because they were UK citizens and the conditions of a prison in Peru were inhumane.

So are you holding the view that all UK criminals should be sent to the UK to be in a UK prison when they commit crimes abroad so we can pick up the bill?
Click to expand...

Edit

Not worth the hassle tbh. Ciao.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom