What's wrong with the railways in this country?

[TW]Fox;22431341 said:
Oh, so perhaps the train isn't so bad afterall?
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I'm arguing based on the fact that we pay a significant amount towards travelling by train and I feel the service should be better. Just because it's more hassle to go by car, doesn't mean improvements on the railways aren't needed.
 
Rossi~ said:
Return? South -> North -> South (not the other way around). Why the 17th, seems rather specific.
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Challenge is on!

16th October, 6.34 from Stevenage - £16.50.
16th October, 19.04 from Newcastle - £13.50.
Both of those trains are direct as well.

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You could go first class for £99.

Boom. As Fox has said, thousands of times, there are cheap train fares available you just have to book in advance. Much in the same way you do when booking plane tickets.
 
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Less than half the cost of your ticket goes to Network Rail, the rest goes to the Train Operating Company (TOC) and then further split into their profit margin/staff costs and operating costs.

Working on the railway isn't fun, it's very heavily regulated in terms of safety and the bulk of work has to be done during very limited hours at nights and weekends. You typically can't start until 1am and normally have to be off track at 4am, you try getting significant bits of work done. Oh and of course you can't stop the trains running to do significant work because everyone will complain!
 
Part of the problem is of course that nobody really owns the railways. The train operators don't own the track and don't really own the trains as it's all leased and lent between god knows who. As a result nobody is really interested in proper investment because they won't see the benefit of it, so it falls on the government to pour money into things when they start falling apart.

We need either a fully nationalised railway with the buck stopping with the government, or a fully privatised railway where the company owns everything and so has an interest to improve their trains and service.
 
Rossi~ said:
I blame Thatcher and Major.....

Go to Germany, Italy or Scandinavia and compare, it's quite funny.
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Love taking trains in Scandinavia. Three times last year I made the trip from Oslo to Stockholm by train. The Scandinavian countryside is quite dramatic and beautiful and there's something about sitting in the dining car, sipping a strong coffee, reading and watching the houses and small towns go by.

Think I could've flown for cheaper but prefer trains.
 
My commute into London is great. Always get a seat on a decent train. Cost is a bit on the high side but considering i can take any train i want on that line in any direction at any time of the day it's pretty good. Plus my season ticket gives me discounts for other people i travel with.

Investment is happening and things are changing but what people have to realise is the difficulty in making changes to the operational railway. You can't just close a main line for 2 months to carry out upgrades.
 
Monkeynut said:
or a fully privatised railway where the company owns everything and so has an interest to improve their trains and service.
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I think for a number of reasons this would simply not be possible.

I believe a bit of both is the right answer however there needs to be far more synergy between the infrastructure owners and the train operators.

Network Rail is currently in the process of being re-organised into regions which align more closely with the TOCs. I think this is a great idea and will certainly help.

The other thing that needs to happen is the TOCs need to be tied into making more improvements regardless of if it losses them money. They bought the franchise and they should be held accountable.
 
I see they're going ahead with the plan to spµnk 33 billion on HS2. A line where the average ticket will cost £300. To shave 30 mins from a journey of 1 hour 20.

And even the boss of HS1 says it's a waste of time and money.

33 billion. To save 30 mins... for rich people. And the project will cost every household in Britain £1000 to complete, and additional money for subsidising throughout its lifetime.

I love railways, don't get me wrong. But 33 billion... for what? I'd rather they subsidised fares a bit more for ordinary passengers on regular trains.
 
HS2 seems like a poor investment given that, due to falling wages and rising fuel costs long-term, there will be greater demand for low-fare services rather than ultra fast expensive services. I'm sure most would stomach an hour extra or so to quarter the fare.
 
For me, one of the primary reasons I would rather drive somewhere (particularly long journeys north -> south) is that I can get there quicker by driving rather than taking the train.

I welcome investment in our railway infrastructure. Give the system time to mature and expand and the prices will come down in the future. The infrastructure in this country needs a massive overhaul.
 
Monkeynut said:
HS2 seems like a poor investment given that, due to falling wages and rising fuel costs long-term, there will be greater demand for low-fare services rather than ultra fast expensive services. I'm sure most would stomach an hour extra or so to quarter the fare.
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Yeah, I think thats part of the reason it doesn't make any sense.

It is due to terminate at London Euston and given that the West Coast Mainline already runs to Birmingham from there, there already exists the London Midland and Virgin trains which are used in majority by commuters.

HS2 as a commuter service would clearly command the highest season ticket price because of the speed of the service. As such, I would imagine its only going to be used by those who live in Birmingham/London and are paid a salary where they aren't too worried about saving the pennies.

As you've said, people are annoyed enough as it is about ticket prices rising above inflation each year and most people don't want to pay out anymore on travel to work. If HS2 is likely to mean a season ticket that is a few thousand pounds more than London Midland or Virgin, I would think those on the average sort of wage would rather keep that difference.

So ultimately you end up with a high speed train service that really isn't aiding the congested trains very much.
 
For a nation that conquered more then half the world and built train track all over it, our own system sucks. The service sucks, the train sucks and the fares suck.

The tories should had never sold and broke up British Rail.
 
FoxEye said:
I love railways, don't get me wrong. But 33 billion... for what? I'd rather they subsidised fares a bit more for ordinary passengers on regular trains.
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I have to say as totally awesome as HS2 sounds and will be - 250mph trains are ALWAYS totally awesome - I have to agree with you.
 
Trifid said:
I always smile when people on Facebook moan about the C2C service to Fenchurch street. One of the best train operators in the country IMO. Unless you get one on one of the last stops before London you can get a seat, very rarely is the service delayed by more than a minute and when it is, it's usually something outside their control (cars crashing into bridges seemed to be popular?)
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Yeah, C2C is pretty good imo. I haven't used the other one very often (the Liverpool Street line from Southend) but the trains are way worse, takes ages longer, just as busy.

My only beef with trains is the cost. I'm sending someone on training at the moment from Braintree and it's costing £45 a day! The cost of train travel is getting ludicrous imo but I'm not going to pretend I have even the first idea what should be done about it.
 
I travel every day on the Brighton mainline and rarely experience problems. Since Xmas there've been a couple of issues with broken down trains and the weather causing engineering works to overrun, but generally they have been much improved since I started commuting on the Brighton line 9 years ago.
 
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