When are you going fully electric?

The issue is people aren’t buying new due to the crappy residuals so that kind of goes against your view.

Charging without a driveway is a massive issue. It takes ages and is more than diesel. So no benefit as you pay more for a car that takes longer to fill and costs more! It’s not FUD at all it’s a real blocker to uptake.

Have you got an Ev without access to cheap charging then ?
I didn't have access to cheap charging for the first 18 months of ownership.
A clip from smmt from January sales.
Some 20,935 BEVs were registered in January, a rise of 21.0% year on year, taking the overall total since 2002 to 1,001,677 – testament to the commitment of manufacturers to deliver ever-increasing numbers of zero emission models.1 BEV market share for January also grew year on year to 14.7%
 
Last edited:
It’s not gaining traction, literally the opposite is happening. There used to be 15 hydrogen filling stations in the U.K., there are now 3 and the same divestment is being replicated across the world.


Solid state is not the be all and end all. It is very much a catch all term which refers a wide range of chemistries which make up ‘solid state’ and ‘semi solid state’ batteries. Some promise these amazing characteristics like charging in a few minutes at very high power, others are only incrementally better than we have now. The ones going into mass production are the latter not the former.

It’s easy to make one cell in a lab, building millions of them is a whole different ball game. Their issue is that much cheaper chemistries like LFP are already dense enough and charge fast enough for the vast majority of applications and only getting better.


This is why you should do the reading before forming an opinion.

The dangerous bit of a hydrogen powered car, fuel cell or combustion is the hydrogen itself. How it’s used doesn’t change that.



Where have you read that fuel cells go boom like batteries do?

Batteries don’t go boom, they actually burn very slowly if they catch fire. Petrol actually goes boom.

Car fires are actually tracked quite closely and the evidence currently suggests battery electric cars are a lot less likely to catch fire than an a standard combustion car.

I doubt there is any data on hydrogen cars because there is so few of them but if one did catch fire it would have been front page news for a week.
Too much to easily comment on by phone but this doesn't look like it's burning slowly to me:


That burns very fast and escapes from the hole that gets poked into the casing. If the chemical runaway happens with no hole it will certainly pop ala boom and cause a big issue. That's only a laptop or e bike battery judging by the size of the thing.

The same thing happened with records. Loads of them, then not so much and now a whole HMV store chain opening again selling them. Just because there's less hydrogen fueling stations now doesn't mean they won't come back if the technology improves or public opinion for it changes. I don't see your point here?

One cell in a lab was how lithium probably started and it just takes time for mass production of new technology to get to where it's commercially viable.

The storage of hydrogen is only one part of what makes it dangerous and how it's combusted or turned into energy is another. Yes hydrogen is highly flammable like petrol or diesel is so the storage of it is exactly the same. Turning it into energy via ice or chemical fuel cell conversion is what makes one process more dangerous than the other.

Ice of hydrogen is fed slowly into combustion whereas a fuel cell, like lithium, is compressed into a single cell so a thermal runaway causes the whole cell to explode instead of keeping the hydrogen stored in liquid or gas form further away from where the action is.

At the moment, no technology exists that's a perfect option for the future but I believe we're just a few steps away from one form or the other making big leaps forward and becoming the future option.

Edit: And just for ***** and giggles, seen as how we're discussing theoretical future fuel options:

 
Last edited:
You do know petrol cars have that too? What’s your point?
I have noticed you can buy 12v lead acid replacement batteries as lithium ion now. allegedly last for ages and huge capacity for fraction of the weight. they are expensive mind you but for performance cars I could imagine them being the norm. I wonder if the anti EV press will try to create fear about those as well or if they will be fine because they are in a fossil fuel burning car?
other than that tho I don't think most ICE cars have lithium batteries do they?
 
That burns very fast and escapes from the hole that gets poked into the casing. If the chemical runaway happens with no hole it will certainly pop ala boom and cause a big issue. That's only a laptop or e bike battery judging by the size of the thing.
LFP for the win - one of the manufacturers had put their additional safety characteristics in the advertising.
 
LPG was largely a failure, why do people thing hydrogen will succeed in some sort of ice format, genuine question.
LPG failed because the government of the day decided to rack up the tax on it IIRC. It was doing quite well up to that point I thought but the benefit of cheaper driving was removed.
 
LPG failed because the government of the day decided to rack up the tax on it IIRC. It was doing quite well up to that point I thought but the benefit of cheaper driving was removed.

A few things conspired against LPG in the UK - minimal manufacturer commitment, car tech making it impossible retrofit (direct injection), the changes to tax/congestion charge in London in early 2000s, Shell/Autogas relationship ending etc.

It just found its niche. It's still widely available in Europe.

I still have an LPG car & for what I use it for (long drives at higher speeds, where your economy plummets so a low cost of fuel/energy matters the most) it still can't be beat.
 
Too much to easily comment on by phone but this doesn't look like it's burning slowly to me:


That burns very fast and escapes from the hole that gets poked into the casing. If the chemical runaway happens with no hole it will certainly pop ala boom and cause a big issue. That's only a laptop or e bike battery judging by the size of the thing.
That is not burning fast nor is it a big boom. It literally takes tens of hours for an EV battery to burn if left to its own devices. It’s contained in a steel box, it takes a long time to burn through.

In a car fire the flammability of the battery is the least of your worries, the interior is highly combustible and will go up in seconds.

If you want a big boom, look up how petrol burns and explodes.

The same thing happened with records. Loads of them, then not so much and now a whole HMV store chain opening again selling them. Just because there's less hydrogen fueling stations now doesn't mean they won't come back if the technology improves or public opinion for it changes. I don't see your point here?
What technology? The thing driving hydrogen is the fuel cell but the fuel cell is only a fraction of the process within a huge supply chain.

Producing, liquefying, transporting and the regasification process already happen at scale and has done for a long time, the cost is what it is. Improving it is not a technological problem, you are fighting against physics.

One cell in a lab was how lithium probably started and it just takes time for mass production of new technology to get to where it's commercially viable.

The storage of hydrogen is only one part of what makes it dangerous and how it's combusted or turned into energy is another. Yes hydrogen is highly flammable like petrol or diesel is so the storage of it is exactly the same.
No, it’s really not. The hydrogen molecule is tiny compared to petrol or diesel meaning it can leak through microscopic holes. Leaks are really bad because it’s explosive at almost all concentrations within air. Petroleum vapour’s explosive range is fairly narrow by comparison and diesel doesn’t explode unless it is heated or put under compression.

Turning it into energy via ice or chemical fuel cell conversion is what makes one process more dangerous than the other.

Citation needed. Burning hydrogen in a vehicle is significantly more dangerous than petrol and diesel for the leakage reason set out above.

Ice of hydrogen is fed slowly into combustion whereas a fuel cell, like lithium, is compressed into a single cell so a thermal runaway causes the whole cell to explode instead of keeping the hydrogen stored in liquid or gas form further away from where the action is.

I’m not getting the sense you really understand the fundamentals is what’s happening here and why something is or isn’t dangerous.
At the moment, no technology exists that's a perfect option for the future but I believe we're just a few steps away from one form or the other making big leaps forward and becoming the future option.

What steps would those be?

Hydrogen fuel cells as a technology is already viable and works, it just doesn’t make economic sense to anyone within passenger transport. Fuel cell costs are high and will come down with scale however that’s not the problem with hydrogen. The cost of hydrogen itself is simply too high and it’s not something that is going to come down materially with ‘technology’.

It’s already produced at a huge scale and has a wide range of applications in industry already. If there are options that would make producing hydrogen cheaper, they’d be doing it already and there wouldn’t be any links to road transport.
 
The wraps have been taken off the R5, looks a fantastic set of wheels, price is sub 30k.
sub 30k... was initially announced as being sub 23K iirc. if its over 25k it will be a damn shame imo, (assuming it will be of limited range).

car needs to be one of 2 things, either really affordable in which case people will accept a slightly reduced range and have as a 2nd car imo OR if its going to be the best part of 30K it needs to have a real usable range as a primary car able to easily travel anywhere in the country.

imo the market does not need another honda E.

I say this as someone who was looking forward to this car since 1st concepts shown. i had planned on replacing our 2nd car with one possibly............. until our hand was forced last year when our car was written off.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom