When are you going fully electric?

You're absolutely right. If there were more quick chargers on rural tourist routes that would mitigate the need for an extended range.
I mean if you have enough range to get you to your destination where you can plug in on a 3-pin, I can't really see a problem going off the main road and onto a rural route. I think even most EV drivers will be surprised how close they are to a rapid charger in any point of GB now, even out in the sticks like northern Scotland.

What do you define as a rural tourist route?
 
To be fair you're not wrong, I know here in sunny GB we're never very far from a big Tesco or a service station, so in that respect you're not very far from a charger. I guess my concern would be that when towing with a mid sized ev I expect you get between 100 - 150 miles of range, which is a tad low for some of my journeys.

I'm definitely not arguing against towing with an EV, quite the opposite; I guess my point is that when I do take the plunge I'll be more comfortable with more frequent quick chargers around the more rural party's of Wales and Scotland. Which I do believe is the way we're going
 
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I'm now in market for my first EV. I'm in the fortunate position being self employed that I can claim the capital allowance and offset my tax liability by a significant amount.
Test drove a Skoda Enyaq on Friday. It was er fine and on paper makes a lot of sense but not sure it really grabbed me. Competent.
Criteria for the car are
- +300 mile WLTP range (more better), as I occasionally have to make a Fife pilgrimage which is 440 miles.
- decent boot size for the dog(s) occasionally
- must be SUV (Mrs Calpol stipulation)

Also had a look at the Ford Explorer which the Mrs quite likes and I think I would consider the Audi Q4 45 as the interior is a bit classier than the Ford.
Checked out the Renault Scenic also which has good reviews but its interior is funky but not sure how durable it would be.

Any comments (waits for Audi software is pants)

Enyaq has to be in the right trim to make it not feel meh :p sportline or VRS they look good. ID7 have a great deals at the moment, then you are in daft list price territory like the I5,A6 Etron. Kia EV9 is a great looking thing imo, not the most efficient, but bags of space.
 
Car selection is poor unless you have deep pockets. You are looking at cars with a £50k list price to get 1600kg towing capacity, if you need 2000kg capacity, you are looking at a list price of £80k+ (until the Q6 etron launches). Even then, not all are viable, an ID.4 and its clones can only tow 1200kg - useless. Compare to ICE there is a plethora of cheaper ICE cars that will tow 2000kg.

Range needs to be a bit better, but as above, not that much better in reality. Ease of recharging needs to be improved.
I bet that a Q8 Etron 55 would be about the best you could get as an EV tow car. They're already fairly inefficient but deal with it by carrying a whopping 115kwh battery pack.
 
It is but it isn’t at the same time, it’s definitely not an insurmountable issue either. A few minor tweaks to the infrastructure would make it easier.


That would be me, I just got back from Wales for a week, 220 miles each way towing with my Model Y.

It’s not as rare as you might think, at the site I was on there was a guy with a Model X. When I was on my way back, an XC40 recharge was charging at Rugby services and they parked their caravan next to mine. There is a growing group on boomerbook of people sharing experiences.

The furthest I’ve gone is 330 miles to Devon just before the school holidays, no problem.

Range is an issue but it also isn’t. Most caravaners travel less than 100 miles for most of their trips.

The availability of chargers isn’t really an issue, there are plenty of them around en-route. I think we’ve done 7 trips this year, I’ve needed to charge en route on 3 of them and it was never an issue.

My Model Y gets a range of of 140 miles with a standard 7ft6 caravan on the back, the length and weight doesn’t really make much difference. I can eek that out to 150 by managing my speed a bit and sticking with the trucks. I tend to drive at max speed (60) and overtake as much as I can now I’ve got more confidence with it.

I’d love to have more range, but actually I don’t think I actually need that much more range. 140 miles is over 3 hours driving in the real world (when towing) and by that point I’m beyond ready for a break, it takes a hell of a lot more concentration than normal driving thanks to the standard on the roads these days.

It would be much more convenient if the car had 170-180 real world miles while towing. It would mean you can better utilise the optimal charging curve on the car to reduce charging times (e.g. I don’t need to go to such a high SOC). Beyond that, I think you’d start hitting diminishing returns very quickly.

Combine a bit more range with towing friendly stalls and slightly faster recharging and I think we will pretty much be there for the vast majority of caravaners. The Q6 etron looks like it will tick 2 of 3 of those boxes on paper so it’s not like the cars are not coming.

I think the below summaries EV towing currently…

The good:
You can charge your car from the caravan’s electric hook up - plenty of sites have sensible policies and pricing. The day to day is incredibly convenient.

They are incredibly good at towing, lots of torque and very stable thanks to the low centre of gravity.

The bad:

Some MSAs are simply not set up for tow cars needing to charge at the moment. The caravan parking can be in an area that you can’t get back to without going the wrong way down a one way road. The solution is to take your caravan into the car parking area, I’ve not encountered a problem but I’m sure some lovely human will try to make it one at some point, people gonna people at the end of the day.

There are a handful of trailer friendly rapid charging stalls in the entire country so you do need to unhitch, I’ve got it down to a couple of minutes but it could be better.

Car selection is poor unless you have deep pockets. You are looking at cars with a £50k list price to get 1600kg towing capacity, if you need 2000kg capacity, you are looking at a list price of £80k+ (until the Q6 etron launches). Even then, not all are viable, an ID.4 and its clones can only tow 1200kg - useless. Compare to ICE there is a plethora of cheaper ICE cars that will tow 2000kg.

Range needs to be a bit better, but as above, not that much better in reality. Ease of recharging needs to be improved.

Look at the ICE cars people suggest for towing X5, XC90 or a Vito Van. these are not cheap vehicles new. If the argument is you can just buy an old one, then buying an EV is moot anyway, you were never going to buy an expensive car anyway.

Something approx 3% of UK drivers tow a caravan. And about 3% of cars are BEVs. So the number of BEV drivers that will tow a caravan is tiny.

That before you consider drive through charging etc.

Tbh some of these scenarios the only sane choice of regular very long distance towing to remote locations I wouldn't even do in a petrol.
 
I'm now in market for my first EV. I'm in the fortunate position being self employed that I can claim the capital allowance and offset my tax liability by a significant amount.
Test drove a Skoda Enyaq on Friday. It was er fine and on paper makes a lot of sense but not sure it really grabbed me. Competent.
Criteria for the car are
- +300 mile WLTP range (more better), as I occasionally have to make a Fife pilgrimage which is 440 miles.
- decent boot size for the dog(s) occasionally
- must be SUV (Mrs Calpol stipulation)

Also had a look at the Ford Explorer which the Mrs quite likes and I think I would consider the Audi Q4 45 as the interior is a bit classier than the Ford.
Checked out the Renault Scenic also which has good reviews but its interior is funky but not sure how durable it would be.

Any comments (waits for Audi software is pants)

It won’t meet your criteria for WLTP but it will do ~200 motorway miles in summer and rapid charge like a champion, even in winter. Used E-Tron 55 will be very practical and much more premium than a lot of the EVs you mentioned. Comes with adaptive air suspension as standard. They are also cheaper than similar aged Enyaq 80 and a much more premium and better equipped with a far superior infotainment system. It is not an efficient EV but still much cheaper than ICE when home charged.

2022 model, still under some warranty and ~20k miles. It’s a basic spec Technik (but still more kit than a standard Enyaq). No blind spot assist, or adaptive cruise control if that’s a problem.


You could get a higher spec model with adaptive cruise control if you compromise on age and mileage. I had the Technik and it was a great SUV with decent range and great rapid charging.
 
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I bet that a Q8 Etron 55 would be about the best you could get as an EV tow car. They're already fairly inefficient but deal with it by carrying a whopping 115kwh battery pack.
1800kg towing capacity too which will cover all but the biggest loads.

Look at the ICE cars people suggest for towing X5, XC90 or a Vito Van. these are not cheap vehicles new. If the argument is you can just buy an old one, then buying an EV is moot anyway, you were never going to buy an expensive car anyway.
The point was you can buy lower end ICE cars with decent towing capacity, you don’t need to get into premium SUVs to tow 2000kg, a Ford Kuga will happily do it.

X5 and XC90 are pretty high end and I’d suggest cars like the Tiguan and Kuga are far more representative. Towing capacity on EVs and hybrids is generally a lot lower than their ICE equivalents. For example a VW Tiguan can tow 2000kg, a ID.4 can tow 1200kg. A Kuga can tow 2000kg, Mach-e 1500kg.



Something approx 3% of UK drivers tow a caravan. And about 3% of cars are BEVs. So the number of BEV drivers that will tow a caravan is tiny.

That before you consider drive through charging etc.
Caravans are not the only things people tow but I don’t disagree with your point in principle however, come 2030 the non-hybrid or electric options will start becoming very limited, particularly if you want to drive a relatively new car.

Can you see VW re-engineering the ID.4 before 2030 to increase its towing capacity? It’s not impossible but I don’t see it happening.

Tbh some of these scenarios the only sane choice of regular very long distance towing to remote locations I wouldn't even do in a petrol.
I doubt you’ll be able to even buy a new diesel car in a few years that isn’t a large, very premium SUV.
 
I think even most EV drivers will be surprised how close they are to a rapid charger in any point of GB now, even out in the sticks like northern Scotland.

*Wales entered the chat*

If you're driving the Welsh coast, your options for a site with multiple rapids are limited to Aberystwyth, and... well, that's it actually.

There are a couple of single chargers dotted around, but not sure I'd want to rely on those as an only option, especially in busy holiday periods.

I'm sure it's getting better, and give it another few years and the landscape should be much improved, but that's still definitely a black spot
 
Interested to hear your reasoning to this statement?

Are your really asking this? If you want to convince yourself Elon Musk is not a complete knob, go ahead. But trying to make it sound like you need someone to provide “reasoning” that he isn’t demonstrably a total ****. lol, just el oh el :D
 
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*Wales entered the chat*

If you're driving the Welsh coast, your options for a site with multiple rapids are limited to Aberystwyth, and... well, that's it actually.

There are a couple of single chargers dotted around, but not sure I'd want to rely on those as an only option, especially in busy holiday periods.

I'm sure it's getting better, and give it another few years and the landscape should be much improved, but that's still definitely a black spot

You say that but there is still a rapid charger every ~10 miles or so and most of them have 2 stalls.

It’s also worth mentioning that it’s only ~150 miles from Haverfordwest to Bangor and ~90 miles from east to west. South Wales has excellent coverage.

The NC500 has worse coverage and it’s much more popular than driving around the Welsh coast.
 
You say that but there is still a rapid charger every ~10 miles or so and most of them have 2 stalls.

It’s also worth mentioning that it’s only ~150 miles from Haverfordwest to Bangor and ~90 miles from east to west. South Wales has excellent coverage.

The NC500 has worse coverage and it’s much more popular than driving around the Welsh coast.

Every 10 miles or so?

aQE3u4o.png


Between Aberystwyth and Cardigan (which is the default route for my sat nav if we were travelling to Cardigan) is 40 miles. That rapid at Cardigan is a single point (wtf?!). If you can't charge at your destination, then that's 80 miles you need to be able to cover without a charge (or make a special trip just to charge).

Of the others in the screenshot, Machynlleth, Llanybydder and Fishguard have 2 stalls, all the others are a single charger.

Is that really enough in a relatively popular tourist destination? Yes, South Wales is fine, but Mid/North-West is still lacking IMO (although to be fair there are a good number of destination chargers popping up in various beach/coastal car parks).
 
Every 10 miles or so?

aQE3u4o.png


Between Aberystwyth and Cardigan (which is the default route for my sat nav if we were travelling to Cardigan) is 40 miles. That rapid at Cardigan is a single point (wtf?!). If you can't charge at your destination, then that's 80 miles you need to be able to cover without a charge (or make a special trip just to charge).

Of the others in the screenshot, Machynlleth, Llanybydder and Fishguard have 2 stalls, all the others are a single charger.

Is that really enough in a relatively popular tourist destination? Yes, South Wales is fine, but Mid/North-West is still lacking IMO (although to be fair there are a good number of destination chargers popping up in various beach/coastal car parks).

Unless you drive a Nissan Leaf then you can get in and out of Wales in an EV just fine. The distances are not big - average speed is slow, due to tight & narrow roads clogged with caravans and tractors
 
Unless you drive a Nissan Leaf then you can get in and out of Wales in an EV just fine. The distances are not big - average speed is slow, due to tight & narrow roads clogged with caravans and tractors

The getting in and out isn't so much the problem as the staying somewhere with no charging, and wanting to go on day trips, if you're staying for 2-3 days (e.g. a long weekend) and visiting places 15-20 miles away, those 30-40 mile round trips soon add up and that's half the range of any EV gone already.

I'm not saying it isn't doable, but it does take some careful planning, and compromising where/when you want to go/stay.
 
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Unless you drive a Nissan Leaf then you can get in and out of Wales in an EV just fine. The distances are not big - average speed is slow, due to tight & narrow roads clogged with caravans and tractors

This is it in a nutshell. There seems to be this prevailing idea that all roads and routes are 70 mph motorways in the UK. Therefore all EVs need to do 250 motorway miles. The reality is for most there is a lot of carriageways and B roads for the majority of UK driving. This reduces your average speed substantially and most EVs with 200 mile range can do these trips with relative ease. Yes moar range is better, but it’s not make or break.

It’s not 2020 anymore with sporadic 50kWh combined CCS and Chademo and AC chargers stuck in the back of a Sainsbury’s.
 
Every 10 miles or so?

aQE3u4o.png


Between Aberystwyth and Cardigan (which is the default route for my sat nav if we were travelling to Cardigan) is 40 miles. That rapid at Cardigan is a single point (wtf?!). If you can't charge at your destination, then that's 80 miles you need to be able to cover without a charge (or make a special trip just to charge).

Of the others in the screenshot, Machynlleth, Llanybydder and Fishguard have 2 stalls, all the others are a single charger.

Is that really enough in a relatively popular tourist destination? Yes, South Wales is fine, but Mid/North-West is still lacking IMO (although to be fair there are a good number of destination chargers popping up in various beach/coastal car parks).
It’s 150 miles between Haverfordwest to Bangor and there are 11 places with rapid chargers en route including Haverfordwest and Bangor. Sorry, that’s an average of every 13.6 miles, my bad.

As @SDK^ said, the roads are very slow, you are probably averaging <30mph. There are also destination chargers and places to stay which offer charging. Generally speaking the goal is to never have to use a rapid charger.

The NC500 has worse coverage and people manage just fine in EVs including Gen 1 leafs (takes ages mind!).
 
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