When are you going fully electric?

[Jonnycoupe]

The battery packs I have seen actually connect to each other, battery to battery, with specific connectors between the packs, in theory a long line of cells would have no more wiring than a dense single pack
All the wiring inside a pack, with connectors to join pack to pack, exactly as they are now

You need to look more closely, most have a simple bolted bus bars between the modules inside that big watertight case. The moment you divorce the batteries each wire run needs to be IP67 rated and have an interlock with contactor to make sure its not live when you want to handle or move it. Huge amount more wiring and cost aswell as cooling issues before you even talk crash events.

 

[Simon]

The battery packs I have seen actually connect to each other, battery to battery, with specific connectors between the packs, in theory a long line of cells would have no more wiring than a dense single pack
All the wiring inside a pack, with connectors to join pack to pack, exactly as they are now

Yep and by product 150kw of heat does indeed need to go somewhere, just as it does now. But things ith larger surface areas are easier to cool than thigs with smaller surface areas. Its why you can use the case of a laptop to actually cool it since you make the large inefficent surface area able to distribute the same amounts a much smaller efficient heat sink. They could for example start using the chassis to help distribute the heat. Where are these crazy amounts of heat being generated now going?

Not everyone one is running 150kw charging yet. This heat management is why a tesla can only do a few runs before the battery overheats (not bulk but certain cells in the pack) and a Taycan doesn't.

Although, usual internet here, people disagreeing via optimism and utopian hope, with people who are involved in the reality of EV challenges

 

[Russinating]

Again, the early adopters are getting some really good benefits right now, but with the rapid increase in EV's on the road due over the next few years those benefits will change rapidly and all this currently "free" (it's not, someone else is just paying for it right now) charging and subsidies that you're enjoying right now will dry up very quickly, with an increase in ownership costs to their realistic levels once millions of EV's are on the road, so thats what I'm factoring in - what will an EV's actually running cost be when you are the one fully paying for everything (no subsides, increased electric price, full road/fuel tax etc) vs an ICE car whose actual running cost are well known.

Your point is valid but you've picked some bad examples. Those free ones I mentioned - and most others - are subsidised as incentives. For the car parks you have to pay for parking, for example. For hotels you need to be a paying customer, etc. No different to getting free parking with a valid cinema ticket and things like that. There'll always be free ones because of the green incentive too; there's loads of free chargers in National Trust car parks for example.

It's not like there's just free chargers at fuel stations; most if not all public chargers in publicly accessible spaces cost, and some are ridiculously expensive. Whatever company it is that has a bit of a monopoly on service stations charge something crazy like 67p/kW. Can't remember their name because I'll never use them..

 

[Simon]

This is why my Model 3 Performance is going up for sale tomorrow. It's clearly a £35k battery with a £20k car bolted to it. The build quality is dreadful.

But you can play games on the screen! and it doesn't have buttons

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Ionity @89p. Interestingly the BMW membership as the Ionity partner takes it down to 29p/kWh which is reasonable for those top up events away from charging at home.

 

[Nasher]

This is why my Model 3 Performance is going up for sale tomorrow. It's clearly a £35k battery with a £20k car bolted to it. The build quality is dreadful.

That's what I thought of the older ones when I was looking at them. A cheap car but they just "suede" wrapped everything

 

[thewanted]

But you can play games on the screen! and it doesn't have buttons

Yay, games! Meanwhile it lacks a speed limiter, the traffic aware cruise control is awful for a company promoting "full self driving", the climate control cannot maintain a constant temperature, you can't plan a multi-stop trip on the satnav, etc etc. I won't mention all the times I've had to take it back to the service center for things that they clearly rushed in the factory.

I love the driving experience, I truly do, but the brand itself has got a very long way to go.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Not everyone one is running 150kw charging yet. This heat management is why a tesla can only do a few runs before the battery overheats (not bulk but certain cells in the pack) and a Taycan doesn't.

Although, usual internet here, people disagreeing via optimism and utopian hope, with people who are involved in the reality of EV challenges

Lol I only mentioned 150kw because you did, so we agree the issue is far less than your making out

Oh your a car designer well that makes all teh diff then, You win im out
Have cookie

Glad we will all be driving around in ICE cars that look exactly the same as they do now

Amazing how tesla manage to power 4 wheels now without needing to run any HV cables round the car, wonder what magic they are using

 

[Simon]

The tipping point of EV is fast charging, being able to charge fully in a certain time. For this most OEMs are working to 150kW. 22kW is too slow and battery technology wont impact the amount of energy needed to move a car. 150kw lets you fill a 75kwh battery in... Im sure you can work it out?

As for cables? What do you think the bright orange cables are. And the areas of the car that firefighters can’t cut contain? Unless Tesla now had wireless electricity from the batteries to the motors too

You are in here arguing about invented physics and you can even be bothered to watch any of the many Tesla strip down or technology videos available on YouTube ? Instead you seem to rely on others to correct your miss understanding within a discussion and then get upset?

I’m not a car designer. I just understand the challenges of cooling a battery and not comparing it to a laptop battery

 

[Jonnycoupe]

150W at 95% efficient create more heat than a kettle at full chat, and laptop cooling is being referenced!

The motors when driving actually shuffle way more energy around (in both directions), active cooling really means you have to arbitrate between cabin and powertrain cooling for the first time in a car as both need air conditioning systems that can provide fluid lower than the air outside.

 

[jamoor]

Why is everyone so obsessed with charing while away from home? Most people will do most of their charging at home.

In my car out of 11k I have probbably done around 2k at public charging, if that. Compare that with going to a petrol station weekly in an ICE car and it makes sense. You have every day convenience for occasional inconvenience.

Being able to add 700 miles range to a petrol car in 10 minutes isn't really needed by most people quite frankly.

I guarantee you 100% if you sat at a petrol staton and told everyone that you will chuck £30 in their tank if they sat in their car for 30 minutes after filling up, they will take it every time . Thats the financial advantage of an EV right now.

 

[Journey]

There's definitely a financial advantage right now for "early adopters" despite the inflated purchase price over a comparable ICE car.

My BEV was cheaper than any ICE comparable car, but then I look for good deals not just take what is on offer like a lot of plonkers do.

No idea how long I'll keep it after the 24 months is up, maybe give it straight back, maybe keep it another 6, 12, or 24 months. If I factor in the fuel cost saving a brand new car is costing me just over £100 per month, and the insurance and servicing is less as well.

 

[Simon]

Why is everyone so obsessed with charing while away from home? Most people will do most of their charging at home.

They aren't, but the challenges being discussed here are because the OEMs are. and if you do need a supercharge, even once, then the car needs to be able to cope with it. Better cooling also potentially enables higher regen rates into the battery during driving.

Most people will NOT charge at home as most people don't have a drive. Just because you do doesn't mean everyone is in the same situation.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

The tipping point of EV is fast charging, being able to charge fully in a certain time. For this most OEMs are working to 150kW. 22kW is too slow and battery technology wont impact the amount of energy needed to move a car. 150kw lets you fill a 75kwh battery in... Im sure you can work it out?

As for cables? What do you think the bright orange cables are. And the areas of the car that firefighters can’t cut contain? Unless Tesla now had wireless electricity from the batteries to the motors too

You are in here arguing about invented physics and you can even be bothered to watch any of the many Tesla strip down or technology videos available on YouTube ? Instead you seem to rely on others to correct your miss understanding within a discussion and then get upset?

I’m not a car designer. I just understand the challenges of cooling a battery and not comparing it to a laptop battery

OK i get it those cables cant be used for anything else.
So we do have HV cables in teh car, if only someone could think how to utilise them to spread out the batteries abit.

But nope we have already reached the end point.
We already have optimised, battery density, cooling, distribution, vehicle layout etc
Its job done no need to change anything at all

 

[jamoor]

They aren't, but the challenges being discussed here are because the OEMs are. and if you do need a supercharge, even once, then the car needs to be able to cope with it. Better cooling also potentially enables higher regen rates into the battery during driving.

Most people will NOT charge at home as most people don't have a drive. Just because you do doesn't mean everyone is in the same situation.

Frankly if someone can't charge at home of work they shouldn't buy this product as it will just be a liability.

 

[Simon]

Frankly if someone can't charge at home of work they shouldn't buy this product as it will just be a liability.

Interesting from a EV advocate. My question is why?

This is the real challenge for mass penetration of EV.

 

[Simon]

OK i get it those cables cant be used for anything else.
So we do have HV cables in teh car, if only someone could think how to utilise them to spread out the batteries abit.

But nope we have already reached the end point.
We already have optimised, battery density, cooling, distribution, vehicle layout etc
Its job done no need to change anything at all

Why bother with all that, we can all drive with a nuclear fusion reactor in our cars.

 

[Journey]

Frankly if someone can't charge at home of work they shouldn't buy this product as it will just be a liability.

Well given that an RAC study shows that 72% of people either park on private property, or use a garage, there is a significant minority that can't charge at home vs. can. Maybe it is around 70% now as people keep converting garages into more living space though.

 

[jamoor]

Interesting from a EV advocate. My question is why?

This is the real challenge for mass penetration of EV.

Getting home, plugging it in and forgetting about it is a BIG advantage of an EV, if you lose that I don't think the other downsides are worth it. It's not fun going to a station to spend 30 mins charging up your car.

Charging at home at your convenience is a major benefit of an EV that people who drive ICEs don't actually realise, its one of those things you will miss once if it has gone.

 

[Simon]

Well given that an RAC study shows that 72% of people either park on private property, or use a garage, there is a significant minority that can't charge at home vs. can. Maybe it is around 70% now as people keep converting garages into more living space though.

A bit UK focused aren't you? There is a bigger world out there.

Also many drives are more than 1 car, so you might not be able to charge them all overnight.