When are you going fully electric?

[Jez]

Whats your view on the I-PACE or Etron Sportback?

This is going slightly OT and is a really rubbish answer but i am really not the target market for either of those cars to be honest. They are at the moment too new for me anyway, but that aside, Audi i just don't like as a brand for some reason (irrational but hey, anything over a Ford Fiesta is technically irrational). JLR i do like as a pair of brands, but if talking exclusively JLR; I'd really love L405 and would pick that over a smaller offering, these are older, therefore half the price of an IPace, and twice the car. If i dont go with a Cayenne and my mileage really does stay down, i may well go for one, i really do love Range Rovers (I had an L322 a few years ago), the L405 is a gorgeous car

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

150W at 95% efficient create more heat than a kettle at full chat, and laptop cooling is being referenced!

The motors when driving actually shuffle way more energy around (in both directions), active cooling really means you have to arbitrate between cabin and powertrain cooling for the first time in a car as both need air conditioning systems that can provide fluid lower than the air outside.

It was to highlight how until we needed to overcome the issue of the heatsink no one tried to find a better way in regards being able to distribute that heat, why because it wasnt a limiting factor until it was. Then someone put the effort into using that great handy piece of spread out metal.
I mean imagine if your trying to cool something and conveniently the main structure was made of ... metal! Its the sort of thing that comes over time with iterations and efficiency upgrades.

Why have we stuck with active cooling in desktops when we could in effect achieve passive cooling, Its simple price, because its completely possible, but it costs more.
https://silentpc.com/fanless-pcs

Why does every piece of wiring in a current ICE car not need to match the battery cables, they are all connected to the same point eventually.
Oh thats right because you only need the cable to be able to support the current it would draw.

Lets say for simplicity sake (its not I agree but lets keep it simple) you have 2 battery packs one front one rear, they operate independently both driving a pair of wheels. At the charge point you split the feed and send upto 75kwh to each.
Each pack (now half the size of a single one mounted at the rear) is wired to cope with demand and charging for that battery. Obviously you rapidly reach a point of ability to supply the correct voltage and current so you couldnt do this say 2400 times, but its hardly impossible to imagine this 2 way split is it? There would be a point somewhere where all the hardware would be highly inefficient in distributing.

Ok sure if you think by distribute more I mean putting cells literally scattered across the car then that wouldn't work but I dont. I cannot imagine really (unless there is some massive advance in battery tech) of the most logical place remaining the main floor chassis, for all the reasons we know, prevent crushing, minimising cabling, keeping cabling away from riskier areas etc

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Why bother with all that, we can all drive with a nuclear fusion reactor in our cars.

It sounds like in your world thats the only stepping stone we have, hopefully it wont take too long to get there then

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

A bit UK focused aren't you? There is a bigger world out there.

Also many drives are more than 1 car, so you might not be able to charge them all overnight.

Why would you need to charge them all overnight, do you fill all these ICE cars up with fuel every day too?

 

[Simon]

Yes lets cool something with lots of electrons by attaching it to metal.

No, the OEMs have thought to turn your car into a heatsink, if it could work the car would be too hot to touch and all the plactic would melt.

The issue isn't the pack size or cooling the outside of it, its the distribution of the cells and heat, obviously the ones in the middle will get hotter and cells can go over 90C on fast charging with indirect water cooling, much higher than what is safe! SO direct cooling allows fluid INSDIE the battery, enabling more uniform cell temperatures.

 

[Simon]

Why would you need to charge them all overnight, do you fill all these ICE cars up with fuel every day too?

Occasionally you wont be able to and as said the OEMs want fast charging to be possible to enable customer uptake for those emergency situations, to buy new cars from them and keep them in business. Range anxiety and fear of running out of battery is a big percieved issue, so you need a solution to remove that barrier.

You cant just sit there as an OEM and think 'ah nah lets not bother, no one charges EVER away from home and so we wont bother making our car do what customers want ( and what competitors can do)'

 

[Russinating]

Cheers for the link, I looked at the images, there's no way on my particular street (unless I'm exceptionally lucky) that I would be able to park so close to the house so consistently due to so many neighbours cars etc but if that should change in the future then I can see thats an option. Do you have any issues with people messing with the cable or connectors at all?

Nope, not yet, touch wood. I'm sure I will - not because of EV, just idiots gonna idiot. I generally only charge overnight so it gets plugged in at ~11pm and unplugged at ~7am, with a security light and camera looking on it, and Sentry Mode enabled on the car. Most people I catch on cam are just interested and curious. Cable is locked into the car so all anyone could do would be to unplug it from the wall which would technically be trespassing as well.

 

[Simon]

It sounds like in your world thats the only stepping stone we have, hopefully it wont take too long to get there then

Couldn't be more wrong, tell me what you are doing to progress EV technology?

I was simply highlighting blue sky thinking vs reality.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Yes lets cool something with lots of electrons by attaching it to metal.

No, the OEMs have thought to turn your car into a heatsink, if it could work the car would be too hot to touch and all the plactic would melt.

The issue isn't the pack size or cooling the outside of it, its the distribution of the cells and heat, obviously the ones in the middle will get hotter and cells can go over 90C on fast charging with indirect water cooling, much higher than what is safe! SO direct cooling allows fluid INSDIE the battery, enabling more uniform cell temperatures.

Jesus not as the only source of cooling no, and possibly never.
But its easier to cool something with a larger surface area than a smaller one.
However that could be detrimental in the car world i agree, ie more heat leakage

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Couldn't be more wrong, tell me what you are doing to progress EV technology?

I was simply highlighting blue sky thinking vs reality.

Wow back to the I know more but I cant tell you any already
Have another cookie

Maybe tell us which of the thoughts are being worked on then

 

[Fusion]

Forget nuclear fusion, this is yet another area where we need room temperature superconductors

 

[Simon]

You are miss interpreting it. You have stated I'm thinking we shouldn't progress. I have offered maybe that its the opposite and in turn offered some thoughts about battery thermal management

No need to get upset. Pretty clear that OEMs need fluids specific to cooling a battery... and work on cars of the future right now. What do you think Formula 1 batteries have to stay cool? Its not air cooling, you need to take heat away from the battery from inside, obviously water would be the best fluid for this, but it doesn't mix with electrons too well. Having a fluid cooling medium also increases the surface area you can interact with to take heat away, aswell as effectively turning the battery into many many cells rather than one pack. This is the way OEMs are going to manage thermal challenges. Not split the battery up in the car but split the battery up within its existing footprint (maybe a 5% increase for cell spacing)

So your original problem was right and solution was viable, but its not the way to industry have chosen to address it. Direct cooling is what the Porsche Taycan is using, which is why its a step change in terms of sustained performance and charge time.

 

[[TW]Fox]

You haven't actually timed yourself pulling into a petrol station to the time to leave - which is cute.

You've got to pull into a Tesla supercharger area too though?

I'm specially angling at people who do long trips here. If I only do local running around a tank of fuel lasts a month anyway so time taken to fill is an irrelevance when it's so infrequently done.

 

[jamoor]

You've got to pull into a Tesla supercharger area too though?

I'm specially angling at people who do long trips here. If I only do local running around a tank of fuel lasts a month anyway so time taken to fill is an irrelevance when it's so infrequently done.

I once pulled into a supercharger in Germany and it was much nicer than a petrol station! You could park up and admire the view for 20 minutes.

Far nicer than getting stick in this

And paying lots for the privilege. No thank you.

 

[thewanted]

And here comes the 90 seconds vs 20 min argument

At least be fair about it. A supercharging session could well take 45min if the next charger is considerably far away. Don't forget to mention all those poor Model S and X owners who have had their charging rates massively reduced via recent software updates.

 

[DarrenM343]

Nope, not yet, touch wood. I'm sure I will - not because of EV, just idiots gonna idiot. I generally only charge overnight so it gets plugged in at ~11pm and unplugged at ~7am, with a security light and camera looking on it, and Sentry Mode enabled on the car. Most people I catch on cam are just interested and curious. Cable is locked into the car so all anyone could do would be to unplug it from the wall which would technically be trespassing as well.

I had to look back a page or two for the pics. Interesting setup there but must admit with my luck I'd have some idiot tampering with it or tripping over and trying to claim.
Those houses look very similar to where I was staying few years ago in Brisly . Sandry.

Stopping for 52 mins total for a 7 hr drive I must admit isn't bad, as long as you can be sure to get to a supercharger without queuing. Should be fine in the UK at the moment but remember reading of 45min queues in California at some locations

 

[[TW]Fox]

There are so many benefits to EVs I can't understand why you're trying to cling to the how amazingly convenient having to stop and charge for half an hour is versus a quick petrol stop. Because thats one of the few obvious drawbacks. Filling up with petrol isn't a chore, doesn't take very long and isn't done very often unless you drive a V10 M5. It's just not an issue, so the EV is never going to win the how long it takes to fill up argument.

Pick one I can't argue with, like the smoothness and refinement around town or something.

Or the zero company tax which is the real reason why everyone suddenly wants one

 

[Fusion]

Wonder what the practical limit is on charging power? We can manage 350kW already, so there may be more to come in time?

Tesla's Megacharger concept is supposed to be aiming for a MW or more, but that's for a truck.

 

[jamoor]

There are so many benefits to EVs I can't understand why you're trying to cling to the how amazingly convenient having to stop and charge for half an hour is versus a quick petrol stop. Because thats one of the few obvious drawbacks. Filling up with petrol isn't a chore, doesn't take very long and isn't done very often unless you drive a V10 M5. It's just not an issue, so the EV is never going to win the how long it takes to fill up argument.

Pick one I can't argue with, like the smoothness and refinement around town or something.

Or the zero company tax which is the real reason why everyone suddenly wants one

Have you ever lived with an EV?

I have lived with a petrol and an EV, and the petrol is a chore.
Unfortunatley you're judging something you have no experience of. Would you be able to tell how a car drives without driving it?

 

[jamoor]

And here comes the 90 seconds vs 20 min argument

At least be fair about it. A supercharging session could well take 45min if the next charger is considerably far away. Don't forget to mention all those poor Model S and X owners who have had their charging rates massively reduced via recent software updates.

For Tesla, the superchargers are 90 minutes apart ime.