When are you going fully electric?

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

When I'm in Stoke I live in a particularly "scroate central" part so I'd always be worried about someone either just unplugging it from either the car or house (don't know if it possible) because they're being stupid or, more worryingly, some moron trying to damage the cable for "reasons" - yeah, some parts of Stoke are fun

Driveway charging seems to be a much better way of dealing with EV's but we can't all live in houses with driveways so on-road charging of Terraces and Flats (currently 30%+ of all housing) is something that will need a really serious thinking about from the power that be if they want 100% EV by 2050.

I guess maybe we are for many thinking the wrong way round, if carparks are pretty much all enabled then maybe you would never charge at home but normally charge at destination?

 

[[TW]Fox]

There was an incident a few years ago where someone stuffed cream eggs in to charging sockets. Which made them unusable.

This kind stuff will become more common in future.

What are you on about?

 

[Jonnycoupe]

There was an incident a few years ago where someone stuffed cream eggs in to charging sockets. Which made them unusable.

This kind stuff will become more common in future.

wow thanks. Vandals will be vandals. I’ve know of streets where every single car has had the tyres slashed. I’m waiting for a similar so what? for situations like that and I’m afraid you can prevent everything.

 

[ianh]

I guess maybe we are for many thinking the wrong way round, if carparks are pretty much all enabled then maybe you would never charge at home but normally charge at destination?

Then the main issue becomes the increased cost of "car-park vs household" charging - how many car parks have enough electrical capacity to be able to charge dozens/hundreds of EV's if Fast Chargers were installed? My guess would be none, so there's the cost to beef up the electrical system supplying the car park, then the cost of beefing up the car parks own wiring to cope with the huge current draw from so many Chargers, then the cost of the dozens/hundreds of Fast Chargers themselves etc. All those costs are going to have to come out of someone's pocket, whereas a household adding a single Fast Charger (only a slight current draw increase) is cheaper overall as there is no rewiring required.

I think EV's will require a fundamental rethink of how we "refill/recharge" cars in the future, because neither of the current "At Home" or "In a Station" options are great permanent solutions once we have millions of Pure EV cars driving around. Eventually there will have to a Government forced Electrical Infrastructure change and we'll all have to pay for it in some way or another.

Your point is valid but you've picked some bad examples. Those free ones I mentioned - and most others - are subsidised as incentives. For the car parks you have to pay for parking, for example. For hotels you need to be a paying customer, etc. No different to getting free parking with a valid cinema ticket and things like that. There'll always be free ones because of the green incentive too; there's loads of free chargers in National Trust car parks for example.

Sorry I missed this on the previous page - Right at this very minute you're completely right, it's a perk of being an early adopter. However the point of my "bad" examples was to question that, in 5-10 years time when there are now 10-50 times more EV's all fighting for chargers and the electric price has had to increase, do you believe that your current "its free/subsidised" example will still be valid, that private companies like the cinema or Charities like the NT etc will still be happy paying an increased cost per car charged just so that their customers can get a subsidised "free" charge, or that the Government will allow millions of EV's* to go without paying tax etc?

Those were my points, that all this "free" stuff early adopter EV owners are currently getting used to today, will vanish rapidly once more EV's hit the road in a few years time and then the "true" cost of EV motoring will be revealed and thats the cost what I want to know - not todays cost, the "real" cost in a few years time once all the various subsides and incentives have been stripped away.

* There was a 220% increase in EV's from 2018 to 2019 which means, should that trend continue, there could be 1 million pure EV's (not hybrid) on the road within the next 5 years.

 

[Fusion]

Then the main issue becomes the increased cost of "car-park vs household" charging - how many car parks have enough electrical capacity to be able to charge dozens/hundreds of EV's if Fast Chargers were installed? My guess would be none, so there's the cost to beef up the electrical system supplying the car park, then the cost of beefing up the car parks own wiring to cope with the huge current draw from so many Chargers, then the cost of the dozens/hundreds of Fast Chargers themselves etc. All those costs are going to have to come out of someone's pocket

Once there's a big enough market, private investment will step in. The likes of Shell and BP are going to be watching very closely. They're going to be on the receiving end of any reduction in fuel demand remember, so they've got a vested interest in getting the largest slice of this new pie possible. National Grid, Siemens, ABB, energy companies, they will all want a piece. Ultimately the consumer will pay at the charger. They aren't going to be free. We'll be paying a premium for the convenience of non-home rapid charging.

I also think eventually there will be on street charging for the residents of terraced housing and flats that don't have their own drives. Pilot schemes have already been started for this. There's lots of money to be made and plenty of new opportunities. Tax incentives will drive the sales until the technology and price reaches parity with ICE, and the market will do much of the rest.

 

[jpaul]

The 800V of the teycan, seems to somehow help with faster charging ... why is that
I guess, the batteries internally, are more in series, than parallel, so they have a higher combined voltage, but the charger itself isn't negotiating a higher voltage (versus a model3), or is it ? I though 600V was the maximum.
if the charger is providing 800v, then obviously you'd be able to take a lower current through the (regular) charging cables, which presumably have the necessary insulation,
and, the plugs are ok when it's raining.

current is halved, less heat. For charging it splits the pack into two 400V modules so if each take 130kW you have 260kW charging. Then after charging just close the HV contactor bridge to bring 800V online and off you go.

ok so there are 4 800v chargers in the uk https://www.motoringelectric.com/charging/which-cars-use-ionity-350kw-chargers/
... are there any/many teycans yet ?

There are currently four Ionity 350kW electric car charging stations in the UK, the latest at the recently constructed Leeds Skelton Lake services on the M1. This comes less than a year since Ionity opened its first charging station in Maidstone, Kent.

The company promises to open a further seven UK sites in 2020, with up to 2,400 charging points planned for Europe by the end of the year. Use of the 350kW chargers offers hassle-free pan-European travel, with around 100km (62 miles) of range available in just eight minutes, depending on the vehicle.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Indeed, chicken or the egg... or we can all just stare at the omelette?

19 Porsche dealers will also have hyper chargers fitted.
Doesn’t stop it using all the other chargers either when away from home charging - that Europe roll out sound rather impressive and Porsche may also join into the Audi Artemis charging project.

 

[Pottsey]

But why?

The only reason you don’t see going to the patrol station as a chore is because you have got used to it. As soon as you don’t need to you soon realize how inconvenient and how much a choir it is if you have to start going again. I know your point of view is long distance and that situation is different and I agree with you for very long trips. But try and look at in from an average driver point of view. If you have an ICE car going what would you say 24 times a year to a patrol station on average and depending on where you live up to 5 to 10mins each time to fuel up.

against

EV potentially year after year with zero patrol station stops, zero waiting to fuel up, zero going off route. For an average driver like myself one out of those 24 fuel stops at 5 to 10min at a patrol station is the same amount of time as I would spend in an entire year keeping the EV running. Being able to pull off your own driveway at 100% any morning you want is massively more convenient then having to make none stop patrol stations visits throughout the year. Many people with an EV can remove between 90% and 100% of fuel station visits a year. When that happens an EV is way more convenient then an ICE car.

Then there are all the other benefits like ice and snow. I don’t really want to be driving to a patrol stations in ice and snow to fuel up an ICE car. When I can pull off from home and go straight to work with a 100% EV tank.

 

[Simon]

I hear those points. But what difference does snow and ice make to filling up with fuel ? If it’s icey in the morning you gonna have to unplug the lead still and conversely plug it in when raining etc. The big benefit of EV which you didn’t mention is pre warming the cabin on frosty days.

 

[Fusion]

I am somewhat of a technological utopist, but I'm struggling a bit with the point about liquid refilling being inconvenient. Many filling stations are directly on junctions or just off main roads. If you've got something very thirsty and/or with a very small tank I can see how it would get annoying, but for 95%+ of people, it's fine.

 

[Journey]

It's neither, it just takes X amount of time doing it.

Either method takes time, but each has a benefit depending on the type of user you are.

If I only need to go somewhere to do a specific thing, and that thing can't be avoided it can be considered inconvenient vs not having to go somewhere and achieve the same result. Like working from home.

 

[Pottsey]

I hear those points. But what difference does snow and ice make to filling up with fuel ? If it’s icey in the morning you gonna have to unplug the lead still and conversely plug it in when raining etc. The big benefit of EV which you didn’t mention is pre warming the cabin on frosty days.

I live in a semi dense population area and getting to my local patrol station and fueling up can already take 5 to 10mins extra. To fuel up to go to work I have to go off route through 3 extra traffic lights and 2 minor hills. Which combined with snow and ice can turn the already 5 to 10mins fueling trip into 30min extra travel time.

Compared to an EV where its 3 seconds to unplug and I would pull off the drive at 100% fuel and go straight to work without any detour. No extra hills and less delays. That one trip to fuel up an ICE in snow takes longer then an entire year keeping EV fueled up for my situation.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Do you live in Canada or something? I can't ever remember the perils of snow and ice impacting my refuelling trip

 

[Pottsey]

Do you live in Canada or something? I can't ever remember the perils of snow and ice impacting my refuelling trip

Well I can many times. Some years are fine other years are a nightmare. I still remember the time I woke up and the car slid off the drive into the road due to ice and many cars played dominos going down the hill. I would rather have an EV and avoid the extra hills.

 

[jpaul]

you'd be needing an awd bev for snow and ice, or, a yearly tyre swap too - are ev's using standard tyre sizes/loadings (can you get cross climates.)

(with a 50 mile round trip commute, 3/400 mile autonomy, I invariably find I am going within the vicnity of a petrol station eg supermarkets, to refill without making a detour)

 

[[TW]Fox]

Well I can many times. Some years are fine other years are a nightmare. I still remember the time I woke up and the car slid off the drive into the road due to ice and many cars played dominos going down the hill.

Doesn't sound like the sort of conditions I'd want to be doing hundreds of miles in anyway, so fairly academic.

 

[Pottsey]

Doesn't sound like the sort of conditions I'd want to be doing hundreds of miles in anyway, so fairly academic.

I wasn't talking 100s of miles. I was talking the daily short trip to work and back. I know it doesn't happen every year but it happens often enough.

 

[[TW]Fox]

I wasn't talking 100s of miles. I was talking the daily short trip to work and back.

Oh in that case then its back to being a non issue - 70 litres of diesel will last a very long time doing that sort of trip, so no need to brave the perils and dangers of the filling station over the difficult weather period

 

[Pottsey]

Oh in that case then its back to being a non issue - 70 litres of diesel will last a very long time doing that sort of trip, so no need to brave the perils and dangers of the filling station over the difficult weather period

Well I never managed to go 4 weeks in my old ICE car I was lucky to go 2 weeks if not 1 and half. Still an ICE car is a good wasted 2 to 4 hours a year fueling up which is rather inconvenient against the effectively zero time fueling an EV. (for me, different in your situation)

 

[[TW]Fox]

Well I never managed to go 4 weeks in my old ICE car I was lucky to go 2 weeks if not 1 and half.

Can't be that short a trip to work then can it if you're burning a tank every 10 days.

Unless your car was an E60 M5.