When are you going fully electric?

Simon · 1 Aug 2020 at 19:32

My Range Rover Evoque. It’s climate control you can start from the app and they had it for 2-3 years

jamoor · 1 Aug 2020 at 20:10

Simon said:
My Range Rover Evoque. It’s climate control you can start from the app and they had it for 2-3 years

That’s one of thousands of cars. Did it used to start the engine?
It’s not at all a normal feature on ice cars

BMWs used to have a little heater with a remote

vanpeebles · 1 Aug 2020 at 20:25

My disco has a fuel burning heater too. The d3s can be made to remote warm or the d4s had it as standard.

jamoor · 1 Aug 2020 at 20:36

vanpeebles said:
My disco has a fuel burning heater too. The d3s can be made to remote warm or the d4s had it as standard.

only on diesels as well, and there wasn't any A/C option.

vanpeebles · 1 Aug 2020 at 20:40

jamoor said:
only on diesels as well, and there wasn't any A/C option.

They nearly all diesels here

Simon · 1 Aug 2020 at 23:00

jamoor said:
That’s one of thousands of cars. Did it used to start the engine?
It’s not at all a normal feature on ice cars

BMWs used to have a little heater with a remote

It starts the engine. Warms up the cabin and turns on the heater windscreen. What else do I need ?

my point was preheating is not EV exclusive

Nasher · 1 Aug 2020 at 23:01

You could quite easily fit a wireless starter to anything. Just make sure you park it in neutral

Simon · 2 Aug 2020 at 00:32

I had a Clifford concept 300 on my Rover turbo 20 years ago that would do remote start (and idle
For 2mins after locking it) . I must have been a EV visionary

[TW]Fox · 2 Aug 2020 at 00:53

jamoor said:
It’s not at all a normal feature on ice cars

It is, just not here.

It's a very common feature in North America on ICE cars.

jamoor · 2 Aug 2020 at 01:45

[TW]Fox said:
It is, just not here.

It's a very common feature in North America on ICE cars.

I guess it’s because laws differ.
Does it affect the durability of the engine if you start and idle for 15 minutes before driving?

Fusion · 2 Aug 2020 at 06:59

jamoor said:
I guess it’s because laws differ.
Does it affect the durability of the engine if you start and idle for 15 minutes before driving?

It's probably better in some respects, because the oil will be warmer before loading the engine.

Simon · 2 Aug 2020 at 08:36

jamoor said:
I guess it’s because laws differ.
Does it affect the durability of the engine if you start and idle for 15 minutes before driving?

Stop trying to find issues with it now you have learnt something new

BuffetSlayer · 2 Aug 2020 at 09:54

I will go fully electric when:

The cost to purchase is the same or cheaper than a combustion engine alternative.

The performance is the same or better than a combustion engine alternative.

The charging (fuel) infrastructure is the same or better.........well you get the idea.

The cost to own and run is the same or better.

The range is the same or better.

For me and the miles I do - there isnt an affordable EV out there that would cope and I don't have the money for a Tesla or a Jag.

When you look at the costs per charge - home charging isn't cost effective either.

So you are left with a subscription model and the inconvenience of having to spend 30-40 mins every day at a service station to top up to 80%.

Hybrids are pointless as they typicallly offer dire performance and are as expensive or more than petrol/diesel only alternatives.

I will stick with a modern petrol / diesel unless the market changes or my circumstances do.

jamoor · 2 Aug 2020 at 10:23

BuffetSlayer said:
I will go fully electric when:

The cost to purchase is the same or cheaper than a combustion engine alternative.

The performance is the same or better than a combustion engine alternative.

The charging (fuel) infrastructure is the same or better.........well you get the idea.

The cost to own and run is the same or better.

The range is the same or better.

For me and the miles I do - there isnt an affordable EV out there that would cope and I don't have the money for a Tesla or a Jag.

When you look at the costs per charge - home charging isn't cost effective either.

So you are left with a subscription model and the inconvenience of having to spend 30-40 mins every day at a service station to top up to 80%.

Hybrids are pointless as they typicallly offer dire performance and are as expensive or more than petrol/diesel only alternatives.

I will stick with a modern petrol / diesel unless the market changes or my circumstances do.

Just note that you should look at overall cost rather than purchase price, so take into account fuel, servicing, maintenance etc into your final calculation.

jamoor · 2 Aug 2020 at 10:25

Simon said:
Stop trying to find issues with it now you have learnt something new

Because it’s an inferior solution in every single way

jpaul · 2 Aug 2020 at 11:24

what happens for a hybrid then ? ... the heaters presumably ICE connected so you have to (unecessarily for usual useage) engage it.

For rapid oil circulation, block heating, wear minimisation, thought you were meant to drive off promptly in an ICE, leastways with the bowl of hot water strategy,
it's literally jump in and go, you need to run the wipers fast to stop re-freeze anyway, dump bowl in passenger well.

BuffetSlayer · 2 Aug 2020 at 13:20

jamoor said:
Just note that you should look at overall cost rather than purchase price, so take into account fuel, servicing, maintenance etc into your final calculation.

Yep. Have done - or at least as best as I can.

I look at 'cost of ownership' and electric just doesent add up. You get far less for your money too. Why would I buy a corsa for £30k? That would be a ridiculous decision when I could have a BMW 3 series or suchlike for the same outlay with an engine that is pretty economical.

Electric is fine for those who pootle about and do short journeys. For people like me doing thousands of miles a year they are just not good enough.

Shame really, as I would love to go electric but the benefits don't outweigh the negatives for me personally.

Jez · 2 Aug 2020 at 13:30

BuffetSlayer said:
Yep. Have done - or at least as best as I can.

I look at 'cost of ownership' and electric just doesent add up. You get far less for your money too. Why would I buy a corsa for £30k? That would be a ridiculous decision when I could have a BMW 3 series or suchlike for the same outlay with an engine that is pretty economical.

Electric is fine for those who pootle about and do short journeys. For people like me doing thousands of miles a year they are just not good enough.

Shame really, as I would love to go electric but the benefits don't outweigh the negatives for me personally.

Its funny you use the pootle around scenario, i worked it out the other way - that for an EV to pay off for me and be worth the massive purchase price, i would need to do mega miles to offset enough fuel duty to make it balance. This worked for me on paper before covid, but right now who knows if i i will ever be doing high mileage again.

For me the comparison was a Model S Tesla vs a normal large saloon such as Mercedes S350d, Bmw 730d, etc. If i'd have gone for that Model S, i'd have a seriously expensive waste of time on my drive right now!

I would go against the local driving only argument in the sense that if you are only pootling around, then you are burning hardly any fuel with an ICE anyway. When the fuel consumption is negligible, the only argument to change is for the silent drive type aspects of the EV.

BuffetSlayer · 2 Aug 2020 at 14:06

Jez said:
Its funny you use the pootle around scenario, i worked it out the other way - that for an EV to pay off for me and be worth the massive purchase price, i would need to do mega miles to offset enough fuel duty to make it balance. This worked for me on paper before covid, but right now who knows if i i will ever be doing high mileage again.

For me the comparison was a Model S Tesla vs a normal large saloon such as Mercedes S350d, Bmw 730d, etc. If i'd have gone for that Model S, i'd have a seriously expensive waste of time on my drive right now!

I would go against the local driving only argument in the sense that if you are only pootling around, then you are burning hardly any fuel with an ICE anyway. When the fuel consumption is negligible, the only argument to change is for the silent drive type aspects of the EV.

I say pootle because electric only makes sense if you are not having to charge daily. My fuel bill per month would actually cost me less than the cost to charge at home every day.

Or I have to have the inconvenience of sitting in a services for 30-40 mins once or twice a day and attempt to use public charging points.

Jez · 2 Aug 2020 at 14:10

Charging daily (ie, just topping it up constantly in your garage) is surely the main draw of an EV, sorry i dont follow any of your post!

- I dont follow the charging costs which you mention, home power is surely loads cheaper than public charging points (i do not know the costs for these, but domestic power is very cheap).

- I also dont follow how your fuel bill could possibly be lower when loaded with fuel duty than the cost to charge an EV? EVs are far far cheaper to fuel per mile, this is why the very high purchase price of a Model S actually turns positive when doing high mileage, when compared with a regular diesel car. The whole point and basis of EV calculations is that you offset the purchase price against their comparatively near zero cost to actual fuel (charge) at home.