When are you going fully electric?

DarrenM343 · 2 Aug 2020 at 14:19

Charging daily reminds me of a question I have. Is topping up recommended daily with EV's? So if you have a Tesla with say 325 mile range and you drive 5 miles in a day, or even more (lets say 50) , is it recommended to top up or would this be a charge cycle contributing to the MTBF? Think I read that keeping battery between 20% and 80% is best, does that mean ideally charge when near 20 and only to 80 and then run down again to 20 before next charge? Obviously if you need to cover a larger distance you'd charge anyway but if doing lots of short journeys, would you keep it topped up daily or let it run down a fair bit first, close to 20%?

Matthew.M · 2 Aug 2020 at 14:24

DarrenM343 said:
Charging daily reminds me of a question I have. Is topping up recommended daily with EV's? So if you have a Tesla with say 325 mile range and you drive 5 miles in a day, or even more (lets say 50) , is it recommended to top up or would this be a charge cycle contributing to the MTBF? Think I read that keeping battery between 20% and 80% is best, does that mean ideally charge when near 20 and only to 80 and then run down again to 20 before next charge? Obviously if you need to cover a larger distance you'd charge anyway but if doing lots of short journeys, would you keep it topped up daily or let it run down a fair bit first, close to 20%?

Plug in daily, regardless of charge level. Don’t charge above 90% for best long term health. Tesla’s let you set this yourself, but most other manufacturers have a built in buffer so you can leave it at “100%” indicated which is something like 92% in reality.

Some people keep the battery lower than 90% but it’s diminishing returns.

Also, by not plugging in you can cause issues with the car not being able to balance the cells. And in hot climates it’ll cool the battery even when parked, but can’t do this if it’s unplugged and SoC is low. The advice for most manufacturers is ABC - “always be charging”.

jamoor · 2 Aug 2020 at 15:04

BuffetSlayer said:
Yep. Have done - or at least as best as I can.

I look at 'cost of ownership' and electric just doesent add up. You get far less for your money too. Why would I buy a corsa for £30k? That would be a ridiculous decision when I could have a BMW 3 series or suchlike for the same outlay with an engine that is pretty economical.

Electric is fine for those who pootle about and do short journeys. For people like me doing thousands of miles a year they are just not good enough.

Shame really, as I would love to go electric but the benefits don't outweigh the negatives for me personally.

Yes don't whatever you do buy an electric corsa for 30k. At the moment it only makes sense at the premium end of the market. Its nowhere near competing with a £12k city car with 0 miles just yet.

jamoor · 2 Aug 2020 at 15:05

DarrenM343 said:
Charging daily reminds me of a question I have. Is topping up recommended daily with EV's? So if you have a Tesla with say 325 mile range and you drive 5 miles in a day, or even more (lets say 50) , is it recommended to top up or would this be a charge cycle contributing to the MTBF? Think I read that keeping battery between 20% and 80% is best, does that mean ideally charge when near 20 and only to 80 and then run down again to 20 before next charge? Obviously if you need to cover a larger distance you'd charge anyway but if doing lots of short journeys, would you keep it topped up daily or let it run down a fair bit first, close to 20%?

I plug mine in every day when I get home. I tend to set the max charge randomly between 70-90% though. I dont see why you would run it up and down, it makes no sense.

Kenai · 2 Aug 2020 at 15:24

BuffetSlayer said:
My fuel bill per month would actually cost me less than the cost to charge at home every day.

I'm interested in how you've reached this conclusion as for virtually everyone, regardless of low or high miles, the universal advantage of electric vehicles is the ability to 'fill your tank' at home for comparative pennies.

Even without EV tailored tariffs to get cheap overnight power, doesn't a Model 3 cost something like a tenner for 250 to 300 miles worth of charge?

To get 300 miles worth of petrol, even in a 40mpg vehicle which would couldn't get near the performance of a Model 3, is going to be more like £40 with the current cheap fuel prices. Once we're back at 1.25+ it'll be even more.

DarrenM343 · 2 Aug 2020 at 15:37

jamoor said:
I plug mine in every day when I get home. I tend to set the max charge randomly between 70-90% though. I dont see why you would run it up and down, it makes no sense.

It was something recommended with mobile phones in the past and wondered if it applied to vehicles

. Ie, keep phone battery between 20 and 80 or 90% and don't recharge too soon to limit the number of charge cycles. Even today I still run my phone down to mid 20's before charging but no lower than 20%.

jamoor · 2 Aug 2020 at 15:41

DarrenM343 said:
It was something recommended with mobile phones in the past and wondered if it applied to vehicles . Ie, keep phone battery between 20 and 80 or 90% and don't recharge too soon to limit the number of charge cycles. Even today I still run my phone down to mid 20's before charging but no lower than 20%.

I think that was back in the days of 6110s.
Modern phones you can just keep topping up.

Jez · 2 Aug 2020 at 16:00

Kenai said:
I'm interested in how you've reached this conclusion as for virtually everyone, regardless of low or high miles, the universal advantage of electric vehicles is the ability to 'fill your tank' at home for comparative pennies.

Even without EV tailored tariffs to get cheap overnight power, doesn't a Model 3 cost something like a tenner for 250 to 300 miles worth of charge?

To get 300 miles worth of petrol, even in a 40mpg vehicle which would couldn't get near the performance of a Model 3, is going to be more like £40 with the current cheap fuel prices. Once we're back at 1.25+ it'll be even more.

Indeed, using a very conservative 3MPKWH for the EV and a very generous 40MPG for a diesel, there are nowhere even near close. 300 miles is around £10 in an EV at domestic rates without a special tariff as you say. The diesel is way more expensive at what, nearly £45(!). Where it doesnt work is at low mileage where you cannot claw back the difference in purchase cost for a comparable vehicle.

Jonnycoupe · 2 Aug 2020 at 16:44

jamoor said:
That’s one of thousands of cars. Did it used to start the engine?
It’s not at all a normal feature on ice cars

BMWs used to have a little heater with a remote

jamoor said:
Has anyone ever suffered the perils of waking up and having a car that’s totally frozen over in winter?

An ev produces instant heat and can defrost while you have breakfast.
It’s the same in reverse in summer, you will never come back to a hot car. Heck you can leave your drinks inside the car with the ac running

I can do it in mine, it’s also got heated steering wheel and when it’s dark it has Matrix LED headlamps.

it does sound like a tractor though.

EV Discussion, keep it on the dartboard.

Jonnycoupe · 2 Aug 2020 at 16:46

jamoor said:
They’re illlegal to use unless you’re with the car. And I’ve never had a car with a remote start fitted either. Any ideas where I can buy one?

every single JLR product with an automatic gearbox since 2015.

jamoor · 2 Aug 2020 at 17:04

Jonnycoupe said:
every single JLR product with an automatic gearbox since 2015.

Ah that narrows it down then

[TW]Fox · 2 Aug 2020 at 17:28

Who needs to worry about de-icing cars, just park in the garage right?

Jonnycoupe · 2 Aug 2020 at 17:30

I assume that’s where my valet puts it.

Journey · 2 Aug 2020 at 17:34

[TW]Fox said:
Who needs to worry about de-icing cars, just park in the garage right?

Nah, most of the plebs don't have one, or a drive way. The motors section alone must have a weird skew to this, as it is the normal go to excuse for BEVs being 'unusable'.

jpaul · 2 Aug 2020 at 17:55

valet, should be the autopilot garaging/recovering car for you ?

one of the m3 videos had some folks experimenting with sleeping in the boot car and leaving the heating on,
would definitely be a plus for the few times I've done that in ICE.

for fun - up until 4000 (FEC) battery cycles, capacity retained is better doing 0-100% charge than 65-85%

Matthew.M · 2 Aug 2020 at 19:00

jpaul said:
valet, should be the autopilot garaging/recovering car for you ?

one of the m3 videos had some folks experimenting with sleeping in the boot car and leaving the heating on,
would definitely be a plus for the few times I've done that in ICE.

for fun - up until 4000 (FEC) battery cycles, capacity retained is better doing 0-100% charge than 65-85%

EVs don’t use LiFePO cells (yet). The energy density is lower than the NMC type they currently use. Tesla is rumoured to be bringing a LiFePO powered short range Model 3 to China at some point, as they have the space in the battery casing and it’s cheaper to manufacture. This should be rated to a million miles or something as that chemistry is more resilient. Less Cobalt as well which is always a contentious component.

jamoor · 2 Aug 2020 at 19:09

jpaul said:
valet, should be the autopilot garaging/recovering car for you ?

one of the m3 videos had some folks experimenting with sleeping in the boot car and leaving the heating on,
would definitely be a plus for the few times I've done that in ICE.

for fun - up until 4000 (FEC) battery cycles, capacity retained is better doing 0-100% charge than 65-85%

There is a video on youtube about a guy who tried to hammer his tesla battery by turning on the heating, radio etc while parked and see how much he could run it down by.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD3jRijKmf0

The big thing about these cars is the car actually becomes an event rather than a place you sit to get places. Hard to describe but I believe that's what they're going for.

jamoor · 2 Aug 2020 at 19:09

[TW]Fox said:
Who needs to worry about de-icing cars, just park in the garage right?

Still cold though

thewanted · 2 Aug 2020 at 19:18

Maybe I'll start a thread "When are you going back to a gas guzzler after going fully electric?" now that my Model 3 is for sale

jamoor · 2 Aug 2020 at 19:46

thewanted said:
Maybe I'll start a thread "When are you going back to a gas guzzler after going fully electric?" now that my Model 3 is for sale

I can see some doing that if their usage pattern changes.
I’d resent spending money on fuel though