When are you going fully electric?

[Journey]

I thought we were discussing how much people were willing to pay, not the RRP? I bet they wouldn't be selling so well at RRP, as then financially they simply wouldn't make sense

Unfortunately it seems that logic is lost on some people, so looking at the usual sites that offer heavy discounts is something they don't take into consideration.

How are you enjoying the Zoe so far, I know you've not had it long - any troubles so far? Also what is the servicing cost and interval like?

 

[McPhee]

I agree no one is paying RRP but that's mainly because of government incentives not 'discounts' and it still doesn't change the RRP of the car which is what we are discussing.

The government is paying £3,500 towards it, you might get a bit off from the dealer but it wont be much seeing as there is a 6 month wait list as reported a few weeks ago in this thread. You might get more off if you take a finance deal but the majority the rest will be PCP or leased and those deals are expensive compared to a Clio.

As is said demand has gone up which has made EV's more expensive and 2nd hand EV's are loosing no money at the moment. Look at the Leaf for example:

In 2015 they were practically giving away the 24kw Leaf (Teckna) on a 42 month PCP. You could get them for £1k upfront and £220 a month (10k annual miles) with a final payment of £10k.

Today the new 40kw Leaf (N-connecta) you are looking at on a 37 month PCP you are looking at £6k upfront, £379 a month and a final payment of £11k

Yes the battery is much bigger but they have supposedly dropped in price since then by almost half.

Offers are out there. I just checked my CarWow and I've got an offers for the Zoe starting at £16.5k (battery included) and Leaf at just under £25k (which is expensive, but a much better buy than some of the best lease deals, e.g. £19k over 4 years).

The Zoe represents a £7k discount after government grant. While the Leaf's is £1,800.

 

[Haggisman]

How are you enjoying the Zoe so far, I know you've not had it long - any troubles so far? Also what is the servicing cost and interval like?

Really enjoying it, so much nicer to drive than my old Civic, and the convenience of just plugging it in a couple of nights a week is lovely compared to making time for queuing at the petrol station (not to mention the ~£40/month electric vs £200 I was spending on petrol!).

The preconditioning is awesome in the current weather too, push the button on the app and go back to my breakfast while the neighbours are scraping away at the ice

Still getting used to getting the most out of the regen, colleague at work has one too and he laughs at the mileage I'm getting out of it, but slowly improving (plus the instant torque makes it hard to resist booting it occasionally )

No problems so far, except the instant power and lack of noise makes it all too easy to end up speeding without realising, so I've been putting the speed limiter to good use! Not had any longer trips yet, but should be a doing a 200 mile round trip tomorrow, so will get my first experience of public charging (I'll make sure my phone is charged and stick a blanket in the boot just in case )

Service is due at 18k/12 months, seeing prices ranging from £90 - 120, so generally cheaper than an ice

 

[McPhee]

TBH those servicing prices are a bit of a joke even in spite of being "cheaper than ice". It's a pollen filter change and maybe a diagnostic/software update. The pollen filters cost peanuts and are quite simple to replace.

 

[helpimcrap]

As soon as you get sub-£1000 electric cars I'll consider one.

 

[glenimp617]

snip

I'm interested in the Zoe myself actually. Do you know what the usual offers are please?
I've gone through orangewheels for the signature edition? Coming back at around £15k

 

[Journey]

I'm interested in the Zoe myself actually. Do you know what the usual offers are please?
I've gone through orangewheels for the signature edition? Coming back at around £15k

It's worth getting some deals through other websites, like Carwow etc. then contacting some Renault dealers to see if they will match the offers. Is the £15k a battery leased option? Also think about how long you want to keep it, and if paying cash or going PCP etc.

 

[glenimp617]

It's worth getting some deals through other websites, like Carwow etc. then contacting some Renault dealers to see if they will match the offers. Is the £15k a battery leased option? Also think about how long you want to keep it, and if paying cash or going PCP etc.

To be honest, I'm unsure at the minute. Yes, I would assume it is a leased battery.
any advice on which way to go with finance or buying?

We only travel to work and back (10 miles round trip), and to the shops at the weekend.

My main worry would be the money saved on petrol would be eaten up by the battery rental!

 

[Journey]

To be honest, I'm unsure at the minute. Yes, I would assume it is a leased battery.
any advice on which way to go with finance or buying?

We only travel to work and back (10 miles round trip), and to the shops at the weekend.

My main worry would be the money saved on petrol would be eaten up by the battery rental!

Why not look at the second hand market, even with the £59/60 pm battery lease there are some decent deals.

 

[bimbleuk]

2nd hand battery rental Zoe may work out cheaper and have the peace of mind of the ongoing battery cover. Something to consider.

It only took 2 months for my i3 fuel saving to cover the cost of the home charger install.

I've kept an eye on the dealer prices I used to buy my EV and yeah they've put up prices noticeably since I bought mine though they seem to be moving them on regularly. They always have Zoe and Leaf in stock and have a few odd ball cars in occasionally.

 

[glenimp617]

Mmmmmm,

There's one with the bigger battery for £8k

 

[Amp34]

TBH those servicing prices are a bit of a joke even in spite of being "cheaper than ice". It's a pollen filter change and maybe a diagnostic/software update. The pollen filters cost peanuts and are quite simple to replace.

It’s basically the same service as an ICE except for the Oil Change though, so a few tens cheaper is about right. That’s assuming you’re happy with the cost of an ICE service... if not, DIY or get an independent to do it.

For both types of vehicle most of the cost is going towards someone “inspecting” vehicle parts... Whether it’s worth it is a matter of opinion, but EVs have most of the same safety inspection requirements.

 

[Chris Wilson]

Right, here's a hypothetical question. You get stuck in the recent snow in your all electric car. You need heat, lots of it unless you abandon the car on the motorway and leg it. How long would it run the heater before being discharged, plus say the radio and screen demisters? I was chatting about this and as an experiment left a well serviced 1980's Volvo 740 idling with heater and blower on full, sidelights on and heated rear screen on. It had half a tank of fuel at the start of the test, so let's compare that with a half charged battery in the all electric vehicle. After 20 hours of idling the petrol tank was just under a quarter full still. Hmmmm.....

So, you are in the above scenario, your battery discharges completely and the car's stuck in the middle lane of a motorway when the traffic starts to move again. How do you charge the damned thing? Do the RAC / AA have some sort of generator or slave battery pack to get the thing off the motorway? A can of petrol or diesel that would give 20 miles plus after 20 seconds of pouring it in would be sublime in such situations...

 

[Matthew.M]

Right, here's a hypothetical question. You get stuck in the recent snow in your all electric car. You need heat, lots of it unless you abandon the car on the motorway and leg it. How long would it run the heater before being discharged, plus say the radio and screen demisters? I was chatting about this and as an experiment left a well serviced 1980's Volvo 740 idling with heater and blower on full, sidelights on and heated rear screen on. It had half a tank of fuel at the start of the test, so let's compare that with a half charged battery in the all electric vehicle. After 20 hours of idling the petrol tank was just under a quarter full still. Hmmmm.....

So, you are in the above scenario, your battery discharges completely and the car's stuck in the middle lane of a motorway when the traffic starts to move again. How do you charge the damned thing? Do the RAC / AA have some sort of generator or slave battery pack to get the thing off the motorway? A can of petrol or diesel that would give 20 miles plus after 20 seconds of pouring it in would be sublime in such situations...

Most EVs have a heat pump for more efficient heating. To maintain a steady temperature it’ll use maybe 1kw when combined with headlights and a few ancillaries. So roughly 24hours in a short range car like an i3 at 75% charge? Days in a larger battery Tesla or Kona etc. Not a problem. I imagine I could get the power draw down to 500w at 19C and switching a few things off. That’s 2 days. If you switched the heater off and used heated seats it’ll probably last 4-5 days.

People regularly camp in their Teslas in sub zero temps with the climate on full and it uses about 30% a night from memory. They don’t even have heat pumps so are more power hungry to heat.

Not a problem. Unless you’re caught with 10% battery, but then that’s no different to leaving home low on fuel. You’re unlikely to risk it in bad weather.

The main motors are so powerful in EVs heaters and ancillaries don’t have much draw comparatively at all. It’s easy to not realise quite how much electricity these batteries store. I could run my house for a week off my car’s battery.

 

[Chris Wilson]

Even a small car water to air heat exchanger can muster over 3kW output given a coolant temperature of about 92C. Given how poorly cars are thermally insulated I would imagine 1kW in a car sat in an outside temperature of minus 10C which is common in Europe would struggle to satisfy all but the hardiest occupants and do little to defrost screens effectively. The Volvo test showed a maintained internal temperature of around 21C, which was in an outside temp changing from -4C at night out here in the sticks to 1C during the daylight hours. I would like to see one of these small all electric cars do this, and run sidelights and radio. I still maintain they are currently impractical given charge times versus refuelling an internal combustion engine, and the practicalities of charging a driving population of say 75% who suddenly changed to all electric would bring the national grid to its knees whilst merely moving the pollution source elsewhere.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Sleeping overnight in the car is a part of the Bjorn Nyland test procedure, if there is an EV with 'camping mode' there will be a video of him sleeping in it. He plans it and covers the windows so an unplanned camp with have higher energy consumption but its well within the realms of possibility.

https://www.youtube.com/user/bjornnyland/search?query=sleep

If you sleep in the seats instead of the boot like Bjorn you can use the headed seats and use far less energy.

As the above poster said, a car with a decent battery will be fine assuming you are not low when you get stuck, an old leaf on the other hand might be in trouble.

 

[Chris Wilson]

Hmm, OK, but of all the vehicles I saw stuck overnight in the snow I do not recall any covered in thermal blankets and foil.... A good few inches of snow on the upper surfaces and halfway up the doors, yep!

 

[Outcast]

Sleeping overnight in the car is a part of the Bjorn Nyland test procedure, if there is an EV with 'camping mode' there will be a video of him sleeping in it. He plans it and covers the windows so an unplanned camp with have higher energy consumption but its well within the realms of possibility.

https://www.youtube.com/user/bjornnyland/search?query=sleep

Dude is pretty kewl and has some awesome real world tests he performs

 

[Matthew.M]

Hmm, OK, but of all the vehicles I saw stuck overnight in the snow I do not recall any covered in thermal blankets and foil.... A good few inches of snow on the upper surfaces and halfway up the doors, yep!

A modern heat pump can produce around 3kw of heat for every 1kw of electricity. They stay reasonably effective even sub zero, although they will get less efficient in crazy low temperatures.

Plenty to keep a car warm. In Bjorn’s latest video he slept for 8hours in -2 and used less than 10% battery in a Kona. Estimated consumption of 820W to keep it warm.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Hmm, OK, but of all the vehicles I saw stuck overnight in the snow I do not recall any covered in thermal blankets and foil.... A good few inches of snow on the upper surfaces and halfway up the doors, yep!

A good few inches of snow in the car will actually insulate it and keep it warmer, its why if you get stuck on a snowy mountain you dig a snow cave to keep warm.

Dude is pretty kewl and has some awesome real world tests he performs

Indeed if you want a real world review of an EV, I would always point you to him. If you wanted a quick show round then there are more 'magazine' style reviews which would be better.

He is pretty unprofessional but he actually uses the car like a normal person, tests what normal people will do with it, what luggage they will take etc. He then drives it 600km-10000km in one go to properly test the rapid charging, cooling etc. He also tests them in a Norway winter and summer which is quite informative for what we can expect here. He has a big following though which is why Jag, Audi, Hyundai etc lend him press cars to use for days on end.