When are you going fully electric?

Journey said:
Again, it depends on how long you plan to keep it, adding £800 year over 5 years is £4000, that makes the car £17,500 for 5 years. At which point there will be literally dozens of better electric car models on the market, and a much better selection to chose from second hand. I don't think that buying new is a bad idea if it is very close to the second hand price, but the market for EV's is clearly in the high demand low supply area.

So, how long are you intending to keep it and did you start out with a fixed budget in mind for that many years motoring?
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I admit to being reluctant to keep it for five years, as I think during that time they'll be a huge leap in battery/EV technology. My initial thinking was to keep it for three years.

There's three cars which has my interest

Brand new 2019 £13,500 (get the wall charger for free)
2018 model for £10,700 (I quite like this one)
2016 model for £8,300

The leasing option also (I believe) comes with the unlimited breakdown cover which could come in useful.
 
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TheOracle said:
I admit to being reluctant to keep it for five years, as I think during that time they'll be a huge leap in battery/EV technology. My initial thinking was to keep it for three years.

There's three cars which has my interest

Brand new 2019 £13,500 (get the wall charger for free)
2018 model for £10,700 (I quite like this one)
2016 model for £8,300

The leasing option also (I believe) comes with the unlimited breakdown cover which could come in useful.
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Three years seems like a sensible choice, but if that's the case then I'd be looking at the second hand market as saving at least £3k, is paying for the battery lease for the whole 3+ years and you'll end up with less to lose at the end especially as it is less than 12 months older than a brand new one.
 
Journey said:
Three years seems like a sensible choice, but if that's the case then I'd be looking at the second hand market as saving at least £3k, is paying for the battery lease for the whole 3+ years and you'll end up with less to lose at the end especially as it is less than 12 months older than a brand new one.
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The 2018 model is very appealing. I've been onto the bp chargemasters website. Do they install for free?
also, and maybe a silly question....these cold mornings we're having. If the battery is at 90% and I charge it overnight for say 8hrs straight I assume it will only charge the 10% and stop? Just thinking about warming the car up each morning.

Our house is under 10yrs old so no eco7 meter so I think my flat rate is around 14p

also, I've heard the zoe is quite loud when charging. Does it annoy the neighbours?
 
bloodiedathame said:
We get free recovery on our Leaf for a year if we service it with Nissan. Came in handy a few weeks ago when my wife ran out of charge. :D
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That's what I'm thinking! It's all well and good planning routes around the charging stations etc etc but if you get there and they are broken or all in use you're stuffed! Don't fancy waiting 2hrs for someone to finish, and then spend the next 2hrs waiting for mine to charge.
 
TheOracle said:
The 2018 model is very appealing. I've been onto the bp chargemasters website. Do they install for free?
also, and maybe a silly question....these cold mornings we're having. If the battery is at 90% and I charge it overnight for say 8hrs straight I assume it will only charge the 10% and stop? Just thinking about warming the car up each morning.

Our house is under 10yrs old so no eco7 meter so I think my flat rate is around 14p

also, I've heard the zoe is quite loud when charging. Does it annoy the neighbours?
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Most charger installs qualify for a £500 grant, and there are plenty of options from 7kW to 22kW, I don't see any reason to get more than a 7kW unless you are needing to charge quickly at home, or want slight future proofing in case your usecase changes.

With most EV's you can configure the car to charge to a certain percentage, rather than being forced for it to be charged to full. But yes, it would obviously stop charging once it hits 100%.

As for your electricity tariff, I am pretty sure you can still get an off-peak tariff regardless of the age of your house, it is just provider dependant.
 
Does the Zoe come with CCS yet? If I am honest, that is my main gripe with it. 43kw AC isn’t very common, if it is there only one of the posts normally has it and CCS is the standard going forward.

Otherwise it’s a decent car.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
Does the Zoe come with CCS yet? If I am honest, that is my main gripe with it. 43kw AC isn’t very common, if it is there only one of the posts normally has it and CCS is the standard going forward.

Otherwise it’s a decent car.
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No CCS on the current model (R110). But should be coming on the next one, which will be unveiled later this year.
 
Journey said:
Most charger installs qualify for a £500 grant, and there are plenty of options from 7kW to 22kW
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You won't get 22kw at home unless you live on an industrial estate, as you need 3 phase, 7kw is the highest on a standard supply

Journey said:
With most EV's you can configure the car to charge to a certain percentage, rather than being forced for it to be charged to full. But yes, it would obviously stop charging once it hits 100%.
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I don't believe you can set the target % on the Zoe, just the charge time (or at least I haven't figured out how yet!)

TheOracle said:
i've heard the zoe is quite loud when charging. Does it annoy the neighbours?
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There's an audible whine/hum when charging, but not particularly loud, can't see it annoying anyone, but when it's preconditioning it sounds like a transit van idling :p
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
Does the Zoe come with CCS yet? If I am honest, that is my main gripe with it. 43kw AC isn’t very common, if it is there only one of the posts normally has it and CCS is the standard going forward.

Otherwise it’s a decent car.
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It's not that bad.

The UK currently has:

339 Tesla connectors
1157 Type 2 rapid charge connectors
1355 CCS
1613 CHAdeMO

Source: https://www.zap-map.com/statistics/

Obviously Type 2 is the worst connector to have to rely on (lower number, being phased out, reliability issues), but it's not a complete disaster. Had a Zoe for 2 years. Managed fine. But moving to a Leaf brought a noticeable improvement in availability and reliability.
 
So is there a paper citing the kW/hour performance of electric car battery cells against cell temperature? Also is there a chart of popular all electric vehicle battery replacement costs? I think I heard some are leased? What's the environmental impact of manufacturing and disposing of these things? I guess someone is going to say they are made in countries with low Green credentials.... ;)
 
My i3 has great features except the ability to set the max charge level. I know this is usually to prolong the battery but I believe they reserve some capacity top and bottom to protect it and not leave it to the individual like some manufacturers. Could be wrong but when charging it doesn't seem to tail off quite so soon compared to other cars I've seen. 22KW battery but only 18.8KW available.

The feature I like the best is being able to set daily charging schedules so Mon, Tue, Thu & Fri it will charge between 03:55 - 07:00 AM and will pre-heat up to my departure time of 6:50 AM. The pre-heat length and draw varies with outside temp as I can see a reading on a mains clamp sat next to my desk.

The other days are set manually as I don't work those days generally. The loudest thing about charging with my EV is the wall charger thunk it makes when switching on! I can hear it start pre-heating when upstairs in bed so it'll be ready to go when I get up.

Neighbours haven't commented on it so I guess they're usually still asleep :)
 
satchef1 said:
It's not that bad.

The UK currently has:

339 Tesla connectors
1157 Type 2 rapid charge connectors
1355 CCS
1613 CHAdeMO

Source: https://www.zap-map.com/statistics/

Obviously Type 2 is the worst connector to have to rely on (lower number, being phased out, reliability issues), but it's not a complete disaster. Had a Zoe for 2 years. Managed fine. But moving to a Leaf brought a noticeable improvement in availability and reliability.
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Latest figures (2013) show there are now 8,455 petrol stations in the UK down from about 18,000 in 1992 and a peak of around 40,000 in the mid-1960s. The USA had 114,474 filling stations (gas stations) in 2012, according to the U.S. Census Bureau, down from 118,756 in 2007 and 121,446 in 2002.

I expected a far higher UK figure, but I guess the small independent petrol stations have all but disappeared.
 
Chris Wilson said:
So is there a paper citing the kW/hour performance of electric car battery cells against cell temperature? Also is there a chart of popular all electric vehicle battery replacement costs? I think I heard some are leased? What's the environmental impact of manufacturing and disposing of these things? I guess someone is going to say they are made in countries with low Green credentials.... ;)
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There are vids on YT that show that the initial cost/impact is higher with an EV but typically they recover that cost in the first 3-5 years and then make up for it to end of life of the car

Look up Two Bit Da Vinci for some good factual vids on EV aspects like the above. Bjorn Nyland for real world comparisons and tomfoolery.
 
Chris Wilson said:
I would be technically more interested in how cell performance equates with cell temperature though, but thanks for the links!
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That depends entirely on the make up/chemistry of the cell in question. One of the companies I consult for specialise in making batteries for lots of industrial sectors, including Oil & Gas, and the packs they design have to work in some crazy high temperatures, and well as staggeringly low ones as well. Thermal management of batteries is not a new thing, and that is ultimately what will decide on how long the cell lasts in it's "fit for purpose" job. For car manufacturers learning how correctly heat and cool the packs will be an on-going but improving science, and I wouldn't be surprised if you start to see further differentiation in models for certain markets, each with different pack design to suit that climate, as on option when ordering.

I think for most people here in the UK, the above is not really an issue since we don't have extreme temperatures in either direction and with the design of new faster charging packs. Even a 30% reduction in very cold weather can be offset somewhat, should you intend to use the car for long journeys on cold days, and don't just use the car for commuting like the vast majority of car users on a daily basis.

It will take sometime for the scepticism to wear off, a bit like it did when they first invented the motor car, I mean what the heck was wrong with a horse, and where do you buy this liquid petroleum from anyhow, and jebus you can buy 10 horses for the price of one car, and what if it breaks, who is going to fix it? Yadda, yadda, and it goes on.
 
Chris Wilson said:
Latest figures (2013) show there are now 8,455 petrol stations in the UK down from about 18,000 in 1992 and a peak of around 40,000 in the mid-1960s. The USA had 114,474 filling stations (gas stations) in 2012, according to the U.S. Census Bureau, down from 118,756 in 2007 and 121,446 in 2002.

I expected a far higher UK figure, but I guess the small independent petrol stations have all but disappeared.
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I think when supermarkets got involved it killed off most of the local stations.
 
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