When are you going fully electric?

Chris Wilson said:
Thanks, I remain dubious over these things in practical terms I'm afraid. A long way to go yet! (Pardon the pun). Sticking with unleaded for now.
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I do advise people to install a home charger if poss and rely on that because public charging is a fractured mess currently with various methods of connecting and charging. I bought mine because my commute is 34 miles total so well within the current battery range plus side journeys.

I'll do longer journeys but will plan rigorously and include contingency charging sites along the way so hardly care free motoring :)

Coincidentally my i3 with 3+ years and 35k miles loses almost exactly 1 mile of range per DegC of temperature drop so very predictable.
 
Maybe not as "glamorous" as Bjorn on YT but EV Man is definitely one reason I took the plunge last year and bought an EV. He's still far braver then me to rely on the current charging network but at least he does demonstrate it's possible if not entirely practical to do longer journeys.

 
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TBH I think dubious is the right attitude when it comes to EVs. They're all hamstrung by range/price/charging issues.

I manage fine in my Leaf. But I wouldn't recommend it to anyone outside of a very narrow use case (any commute between 30 and 50 miles per day, or up to 100 with workplace charging). Anything significantly more practical is going to cost a minimum of £24k, which isn't exactly cheap.
 
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But also if your doing very few miles it's still not all that viable. It will cost a lot less to own a petrol car.
 
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Nasher said:
But also if your doing very few miles it's still not all that viable. It will cost a lot less to own a petrol car.
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That's why I wouldn't recommend one for a <30 mile commute. Though to be fair, the Leaf and Zoe aren't badly spec'd for used cars in their price range (or they weren't when I was shopping for one - I did consider going back to petrol).

Turns out it was the right decision as my annual milage has doubled since then so I'm paying ~£200/month for the lease, fuel and insurance. Petrol, VED and insurance wouldn't come to much less than that now, plus a lease (or purchase of a car) on top.
 
satchef1 said:
Anything significantly more practical is going to cost a minimum of £24k, which isn't exactly cheap.
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Haven't we just been through this? You can pick up a Zoe with 40kWh battery for £13.5k + £59pm lease, you get about 160 miles on it, and about 130 miles in this weather. Total cost to own is £17.5k for 5 years, less the residual value of the vehicle at the end.
 
Journey said:
Haven't we just been through this? You can pick up a Zoe with 40kWh battery for £13.5k + £59pm lease, you get about 160 miles on it, and about 130 miles in this weather. Total cost to own is £17.5k for 5 years, less the residual value of the vehicle at the end.
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Yup. But as much as I do like the Zoe, it has its own unique set of drawbacks.

It's a car that I'd love to own because the range is more than double that of my Leaf and I've lived with the Zoe's unique take on public charging before. But it's not a car I'd recommend to, for example, my parents as I know the charging situation would just **** them off.
 
satchef1 said:
Yup. But as much as I do like the Zoe, it has its own unique set of drawbacks.

It's a car that I'd love to own because the range is more than double that of my Leaf and I've lived with the Zoe's unique take on public charging before. But it's not a car I'd recommend to, for example, my parents as I know the charging situation would just **** them off.
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I guess they don't have the option to charge at home then, which is a shame. If you can only charge at public stations then IMO unless you are buying a Model S/X then I wouldn't bother, and even then it's not as good as in the US/Norway etc.

One of my old colleagues has/had the 30kWh Leaf, and he was so torn about getting it, but it was only £169pm on PCP, with £999 upfront for the mid-range model, and he was so blown away with it and the savings on fuel that he couldn't understand why anyone wouldn't have one (at that price) who mainly uses it for commuting and pootling around the town etc.
 
PCM2 said:
Yes indeed. Essentially, extreme cold weather is rubbish for any car. It's true that you can now pre-heat ICE cars as well, although wouldn't want to do so in an enclosed space such as a garage.

I'm aware of the "issues" with the Model 3 in cold weather as well, I am very well informed about Tesla and the Model 3. But I also know when an issue applies to one specific vehicle vs. it being singled out because it is new and under the spotlight. And sometimes by people/sources who have a clear agenda (that would include Bloomberg). The issues are manageable and it doesn't detract from what is a fantastic vehicle. One I'd very happily buy and drive if it were available here at a reasonable price. ;)
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Are we talking the electric component here or are we talking about the design issues from a young company with little experience?

If the former, it’s not just a Tesla issue. The new Kona fares similarly, as has/does the Leaf. It’s essentially an inherent “problem” with the technology. Heat pumps make little difference as they are so inefficient at those temperatures. Not that any of that is relevant to pretty much anyone in the UK as these issues only really become apparent below -20 (-10 for range) and it’s rarely ever that cold in the UK outside of the highlands.

If it’s the latter then yes, all companies have their issues, but more established companies usually have less issues with the basic stuff due to probably having had them in the past. They’re not EV issues as mentioned by others earlier, and Tesla will sort them out as they pop up.

While it’s true, some organizations make a bigger deal out of it than necessary (they need their ad revenue, it’s not EV unique), way too many EV advocates just brush those issues under the rug because either it doesn’t affect them, or they’re pinballing to th polar opposite viewpoint in response. Neither is very helpful.
 
Chris Wilson said:
So is there a paper citing the kW/hour performance of electric car battery cells against cell temperature? Also is there a chart of popular all electric vehicle battery replacement costs? I think I heard some are leased? What's the environmental impact of manufacturing and disposing of these things? I guess someone is going to say they are made in countries with low Green credentials.... ;)
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Chris, see my post from earlier in the thread regarding temperatures, including a handy chart of real world data from a Tesla user.

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/32135842/

satchef1 said:
TBH I think dubious is the right attitude when it comes to EVs. They're all hamstrung by range/price/charging issues.

I manage fine in my Leaf. But I wouldn't recommend it to anyone outside of a very narrow use case (any commute between 30 and 50 miles per day, or up to 100 with workplace charging). Anything significantly more practical is going to cost a minimum of £24k, which isn't exactly cheap.
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And this is my problem at the moment. I’ve resigned myself to the fact I’ll be waiting at least 5 years to replace our main vehicle with an EV, but our second vehicle could be a prime target. The issue is it only does 3000-4000 miles a year (GFs 10km commute) and there’s no way an EV will pay back in anywhere near a reasonable timeframe. That’s compounded by the fact there aren’t many used older EVs available here at the moment. The Zoe isn’t sold and even if we could live with the “quirky” apearence of the old Leaf, we would have to drive across the country to try and find one!
 
Journey said:
I guess they don't have the option to charge at home then, which is a shame. If you can only charge at public stations then IMO unless you are buying a Model S/X then I wouldn't bother, and even then it's not as good as in the US/Norway etc.

One of my old colleagues has/had the 30kWh Leaf, and he was so torn about getting it, but it was only £169pm on PCP, with £999 upfront for the mid-range model, and he was so blown away with it and the savings on fuel that he couldn't understand why anyone wouldn't have one (at that price) who mainly uses it for commuting and pootling around the town etc.
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They have the option to charge at home. But they also both have parents who live 320 miles away. And they both regularly go on trips away with colleagues or friends. Day-to-day isn't the Zoe's problem. It's the occasional long-distance drive. The range helps, but it's not exactly unusual to find that Ecotricity's Type 2 connectors are knackered.

Give it 100kW CCS alongside the Chameleon AC charger and it would be an excellent little car with reasonable range and the most charging options of any EV.

Amp34 said:
And this is my problem at the moment. I’ve resigned myself to the fact I’ll be waiting at least 5 years to replace our main vehicle with an EV, but our second vehicle could be a prime target. The issue is it only does 3000-4000 miles a year (GFs 10km commute) and there’s no way an EV will pay back in anywhere near a reasonable timeframe. That’s compounded by the fact there aren’t many used older EVs available here at the moment. The Zoe isn’t sold and even if we could live with the “quirky” apearence of the old Leaf, we would have to drive across the country to try and find one!
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Not sure what the situation is in Canada, but depreciation has been incredibly favourable on the Leaf and the Zoe as second hand buys in the UK. It does shift the equation a bit, though there is no guarantee that will hold.

I bought mine for £8200 in November 2017. Cheapest Leaf of the same age and spec on AutoTrader today is £9495 with 10k more miles on the clock than mine has now...
 
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satchef1 said:
Give it 100kW CCS alongside the Chameleon AC charger and it would be an excellent little car with reasonable range and the most charging options if any EV.
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It's already on the way, due for release middle of the year with both charging ports installed as default. No sure what other modifications are being made, but rumors are that it may have a more energy dense battery pack as well.
 
Am I going to get judged for saying that i'm going to hold out as long as possible? I just don't find electric cars very exciting, for me it's about the emotion an engine note can bring.

As for the missus (given her car is the workhorse), probably as soon as they become comparable to ICE cars in terms of refuelling/charging, range, and price. Her car would actually be nice with an electric engine. I need to be able to pop into a station and charge the thing back to 250+ miles in less than five minutes without causing long term damage to the battery.

Oh, and are there any good looking electric cars that don't cost £100k+?
 
Tute said:
I need to be able to pop into a station and charge the thing back to 250+ miles in less than five minutes without causing long term damage to the battery.
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See this argument quite often, and while I can appreciate that limited range and charging speed can be an issue in some cases, how often do you (or in this case your other half) actually drive 500 miles with only a single 5 minute stop?
 
I did some quick maths, to get back 250 miles in 5 minutes would need close to a 1.1mw charger. That's based off some experimental car Porsche and BMW were demoing getting 62 miles in 3 minutes on a 450kw charger.

Putting aside if the batteries can do it or not the grid couldn't handle that sort of load constantly turning on and off (imagine 8-10 of these in one location....) which means some crazy battery buffer to support it.

I think its pretty clear that you have to shift your behaviour if you want to go from ICE to EV (or when your forced post 2040) by charging the car when its parked vs vising a pump every X days.
 
Tute said:
Am I going to get judged for saying that i'm going to hold out as long as possible? I just don't find electric cars very exciting, for me it's about the emotion an engine note can bring.
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Best of both is my current situation V8 for the weekend and EV for the daily commute. Gadgets galore in the EV plus the pre-heating etc. for winter. Noise and excitement in the stripped out coupe for scaring passengers. Having said that I've surprised a few passengers and hot hatch drivers with the instant torque of the EV. Just ask if your passengers are susceptible to motion sickness because my colleague was queasy for a while after taking him round the block. The speed without the usual sound references just triggered his condition at least as a passenger.
 
Haggisman said:
See this argument quite often, and while I can appreciate that limited range and charging speed can be an issue in some cases, how often do you (or in this case your other half) actually drive 500 miles with only a single 5 minute stop?
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But that’s no better an argument. The infrastructure needs to be in place for that to be a legitimate response.

If there’s a set of fastchargers at every stopping point along the way then sure, that works. There aren’t now and most likely never will be. If you usually pop into a McDonald’s, or stop off at the side of the road to have a quick walk to a nice viewpoint then sure, you’ve stopped for a lot longer than 5 minutes, but if there’s no charger then you’re going to have to stop again and charge. With an ICE that’s ok, because it’s quick. With current charging rates it’s not for an EV.

This will in part be solved by just having larger batteries available if people are willing to pay the extra for range.
 
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