I guess it depends on your expectations. I had a test drive in a M3 and found the quality/finish to be pretty average TBH. Each to their own, though.Ah, thought you'd had a first hand experience and test drive, not just been looking at pictures on the internet etc. I always find it hard to establish quality from pictures, but I guess you are more talking about the minimalist approach rather than a car full of buttons and knobs, as all the materials are pretty premium, even the PU leather seats are some of the best I've ever sat in. Can't comment on the towing capacity, the only thing I'd every have to tow would be a small trailer, don't really fancy a caravan, prefer the narrow boat, and that moves without the need for towing.
When are you going fully electric?
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Isn’t that the direction most manufacturers are going these days? ‘Vegan’ leather and suede, aka PU and alcantara.
Most want to advertise their interiors as ‘vegan’ or at least offer a ‘vegan’ option. Like it or not veganism is very much on the rise and they don’t want to alienate customers.
Soldato
Yeah it is - just an oxymoron
Soldato
Have to say, I already hate having to drive our manual, petrol car and its only been 3 weeks of EV ownership. The lack of instant torque and the increased noise is rubbish.
Already done 1100 miles, including a couple of 150+ mile journeys and its been great. Spent roughly £65 on electricity versus £120 on petrol (based on 50mpg which is a best case scenario). Should hopefully be even cheaper once we get a smart meter installed and I can move onto a decent tariff.
Already done 1100 miles, including a couple of 150+ mile journeys and its been great. Spent roughly £65 on electricity versus £120 on petrol (based on 50mpg which is a best case scenario). Should hopefully be even cheaper once we get a smart meter installed and I can move onto a decent tariff.
I think we’re probably in the same camp on that point. I have no issues with veganism but the virtue signalling nature of labelling fake/alternative products that mimic animal products as ‘vegan’ is annoying.
‘Vegan mayonnaise’ isn’t mayonnaise and can never be mayonnaise because it doesn’t have the required ingredients to be mayonnaise. Don’t get me started on ‘Vegan cheese’ …
Soldato
Both my Mercs were supposedly premium and they called their seats "Artico Leather", or PU Leather, they've not yet adopted the Vegan leather approach which is actual refreshing, but they don't mention they are plastic. They were alright in terms of comfort, very hard wearing which is always a bonus, but not as good as I had hoped for which was a shame.
PU leathers not (typically) an oxymoron, its a pu coat on a split(thin) real leather, which gives added resistance and reduced leather cost,
yes you don't get full aniline leather like your sofa though- maybe with an aston ?
All the discussions on car seat feeding become a bit academic, because of the coating, but many of the leather cleaners say in small print works for PU leather,
and they, thus, have no animal content which couldn't be absorbed through the coating.
My new merc is still proper Nappa leather and they havent succumb to vegan leather yet.
I will preface this with saying that i love the idea of an EV, and would really love to avoid fuel duty and some of these mileage figures are amazing - as are some of the cars available.
However, one thing people seem to repeatedly fail to do is compare apples with apples. Quoting the running costs of a Hyundai is an almost irrelevant comparison - i wouldnt buy a Hyundai ICE car, so why would i want a Hyundai EV. People seem to massively downgrade their expectations to get the maths to work
I do really like the Porsche Taycan, these look fantastic, I also really like the Model X/S Tesla, and I Pace Landrovers - but wow at the cost of these cars.
It is very annoying as i spend a lot on petrol and cover around 25k miles per year - i really really want to go electric. However, replacing my high spec Porsche Cayenne ICE would cost me a small fortune - I would never spend as much as would be required to get into a Model X or Taycan.
I keep going round in circles about running an i3 REX on the side, as these are quite cheap now and seem to offer what i want. However, yet another car on the drive (i already have 3)......another car to MOT, Insure, it is a lot of hassle. It also means driving an absolutely tiny car around - again i would never buy a tiny ICE car....so this is more EV dodgy maths as above
However, one thing people seem to repeatedly fail to do is compare apples with apples. Quoting the running costs of a Hyundai is an almost irrelevant comparison - i wouldnt buy a Hyundai ICE car, so why would i want a Hyundai EV. People seem to massively downgrade their expectations to get the maths to work
I do really like the Porsche Taycan, these look fantastic, I also really like the Model X/S Tesla, and I Pace Landrovers - but wow at the cost of these cars.
It is very annoying as i spend a lot on petrol and cover around 25k miles per year - i really really want to go electric. However, replacing my high spec Porsche Cayenne ICE would cost me a small fortune - I would never spend as much as would be required to get into a Model X or Taycan.
I keep going round in circles about running an i3 REX on the side, as these are quite cheap now and seem to offer what i want. However, yet another car on the drive (i already have 3)......another car to MOT, Insure, it is a lot of hassle. It also means driving an absolutely tiny car around - again i would never buy a tiny ICE car....so this is more EV dodgy maths as above
Soldato
However, one thing people seem to repeatedly fail to do is compare apples with apples. Quoting the running costs of a Hyundai is an almost irrelevant comparison - i wouldnt buy a Hyundai ICE car, so why would i want a Hyundai EV. People seem to massively downgrade their expectations to get the maths to work
Or alternatively there is no comparison, or hasn't been until the very recent past. If Mercedes made a C-Class Coupe or even Saloon BEV I would have jumped at it, but instead they launched the utterly pathetic EQC SUV, another BEV shoehorned into an ICE chassis, with (as you put is) a wow cost, and is a pretty terrible example of what this newer, and superior technology has to offer.
Incumbent manufacturers don't want to offer like-for-like or apples-to-apples as it will make sales of the ICE cars die faster than they want it to happen, they are happy drip feeding BEV and pushing PHEV and MHEV vehicles in to reduce the car CO2 fines and they still get to sell and ICE with it.
I'd love to see an actual like-for-like comparison available, but there aren't really that many, unless you want an SUV style car, which is a bit like you saying you don't want a Hyundai, I don't want a massive (or tiny) SUV. I want another C-Class Couple with a BEV drive train, so my next call is likely the Ioniq 6, guess what it is a Hyundai, unless Merc pull their fingers out, or BMW, but haha at that happening BMW want to become Kodak or something.
Soldato
I reckon the EQE and 4 series EV will pop up before this Ioniq 6 anyway... careful you don't get carried away on the PR stuff whilst the 'legacy' car makers are busy making cars and protecting pensions.
@Journey The part in your post which i struggle with, is you saying that you would like a C-Class coupe. I get that, i like Mercs too and i have had an E-Class cabriolet for years, and other Mercs before this. But this is a premium(ish) car from a reasonably premium brand. Why would you ever want that if you are happy to buy and drive from a brand such as Hyundai?
Surely the ICE equivalent is also a Hyundai? All of your comparisons should be from a budget brand, KIA, Ford, Vauxhall, not Mercedes....
Surely the ICE equivalent is also a Hyundai? All of your comparisons should be from a budget brand, KIA, Ford, Vauxhall, not Mercedes....
Soldato
Are you a brand snob? Happy to drive an "insert name here" making it sound like you are putting up with something rather than actually enjoying it. You struggle with it because you associate a name with a certain quality, and you think that can never change?
I actively wanted a BEV years ago, and said I'd get one when something I found something I thought was good, didn't think that would be a Hyundai, but I am not completely closed minded like some people are. Remember when Samsung was just some cheap ass microwave brand you could find in Dixons back in 1988 and no one wanted them, "who the heck are Samsung, utter crap I bet"? Oh right, now they are one of the biggest brands in the world and offer products, a bit like Datsun/Nissan, brands can change, and do change, some get better some get worse.
Regarding you last sentence, how can I compare something if that something isn't available? I had a Merc, they offered nothing, what else could I have got? Nowt.. zip, zilch , zero. I had to look elsewhere, FWIW I have had Honda's, Audi's, Ford's and even gosh a Vauxhall, I'll not mention the *spit* Toyota.
Absolutely a brand snob to answer the first question, yes, but for good reason (usually). You really cannot compare a Hyundai car to a Mercedes, let alone a Porsche which is my basis for comparison, the quality uplift is enormous.
We'll gloss over the argument that Hyundai *could*, one day, become a premium quality brand, as they certainly are not at the moment.
Your comparison at the end is the wrong way around. No-one is saying that there is an equivalent to the Mercedes (i wish that there was). The comparison is for your cost basis when choosing the new car. You cannot compare the cost of the new Hyundai with that of an ICE Mercedes, its not a fair comparison. The valid one would be to select a budget brand cheap ICE and see what is cheaper for your needs from those two. Forget the Mercedes
We'll gloss over the argument that Hyundai *could*, one day, become a premium quality brand, as they certainly are not at the moment.
Your comparison at the end is the wrong way around. No-one is saying that there is an equivalent to the Mercedes (i wish that there was). The comparison is for your cost basis when choosing the new car. You cannot compare the cost of the new Hyundai with that of an ICE Mercedes, its not a fair comparison. The valid one would be to select a budget brand cheap ICE and see what is cheaper for your needs from those two. Forget the Mercedes
Soldato
Absolutely a brand snob to answer the first question, yes, but for good reason (usually). You really cannot compare a Hyundai car to a Mercedes, let alone a Porsche which is my basis for comparison, the quality uplift is enormous.
Your comparison at the end is the wrong way around. No-one is saying that there is an equivalent to the Mercedes (i wish that there was). The comparison is for your cost basis when choosing the new car. You cannot compare the cost of the new Hyundai with that of an ICE Mercedes, its not a fair comparison. The valid one would be to select a budget brand cheap ICE and see what is cheaper for your needs from those two. Forget the Mercedes
Well I am glad I am not trapped in brand snobbery, it must be a terrible burden.
Secondly as for the cost comparison, why do you assume it is only about cost, cost is only part of the factor. If I associated everything with cost I wouldn't have spend money on ASHP, solar, battery storage, etc. as the cost would make it seems an odd move, but I 'wanted' it and the cost weighting was low down the list. Again I wanted a BEV, I couldn't replace the car like-for-like so why should i compare it to a ICE equivalent?
If your life revolves around money and brands then fine, that is your choice, but for me I have other priorities.
I will preface this with saying that i love the idea of an EV, and would really love to avoid fuel duty and some of these mileage figures are amazing - as are some of the cars available.
However, one thing people seem to repeatedly fail to do is compare apples with apples. Quoting the running costs of a Hyundai is an almost irrelevant comparison - i wouldnt buy a Hyundai ICE car, so why would i want a Hyundai EV. People seem to massively downgrade their expectations to get the maths to work
I do really like the Porsche Taycan, these look fantastic, I also really like the Model X/S Tesla, and I Pace Landrovers - but wow at the cost of these cars.
It is very annoying as i spend a lot on petrol and cover around 25k miles per year - i really really want to go electric. However, replacing my high spec Porsche Cayenne ICE would cost me a small fortune - I would never spend as much as would be required to get into a Model X or Taycan.
I keep going round in circles about running an i3 REX on the side, as these are quite cheap now and seem to offer what i want. However, yet another car on the drive (i already have 3)......another car to MOT, Insure, it is a lot of hassle. It also means driving an absolutely tiny car around - again i would never buy a tiny ICE car....so this is more EV dodgy maths as above
Indeed, lots of motoring press do make this point that with some EV cars you need to be doing 20k per annum compared with the equivalent car in order for the ev savings to pay off compared with the extra cost the EV car was in the first place.
The equivalent cars to the type of car I run all carry a £10-£20k premium over ICE.
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Again, i struggle with your post as it is not the point being made or asked. The cost, when it comes to a car, is the absolute factor, with a heavy weight on the quality and type of product.If your life revolves around money and brands then fine, that is your choice, but for me I have other priorities.
While i do admit freely to being a brand snob, tied in with that snobbery is a quality product. You simply must at least slightly appreciate a nicer product signalled by the fact that you once bought a needlessly costly Mercedes car? Why at the time, did you not buy a Hyundai with a little 4 cylinder engine?
I have no problem with either route, but again, it is not apples with apples to make a comparison between premium cars and budget cars, regardless of fuelling type.
Indeed, they are so expensive that even with some serious man maths, and a desire to want an EV, they just dont work
And that is with some quite heavy mileage thrown in.
Soldato
Lol, what?
You can't understand why I prefer a BEV over ICE, as you can't get your head out of the money, money, money thing.
To you it doesn't matter, and you care about the cost. I WANTED A BEV (caps to make it clear), that is what I wanted, not an ICE car. Just like if I wanted to go to New York I wouldn't go to Spain, is it making sense yet? Or if I want a pint of beer, not a pint of cider, I buy a pint of beer, even if the beer might be 2x the cost.